Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

[Edelweisse]

Hi Folks,

I need some help with the marking "BAG" on the EM Saxon Imperial belt buckle that is also marked on the leather tab "Prothmann & Wobeser Berlin 1915".

What does the "B.A.G." represent? Thank you,

[morel5000]

Hi,

Nice buckle!

BAG = Bekleidungs Amt Garde.

If you want to know more go to this inspiring website:
http://www.pickelhauben.net/articles...arks_5_09.html

Best regards,
Michel

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

Thank you.....that really does help!

[90th Light]

A "BAG" marking on a Saxon belt buckle does not make sense.

I agree fully that the "BAG" marking is a guard unit but I have only ever seen this marking on Prussian "Gott Mit Uns" buckles. Never on a Saxon buckle.

The Saxon "Leib" unit was R100 and their parade/ early war buckles were nickle silver with a gilt roundal. Other saxon units such as R101 to 108 each carried their own distinctions along the lines of grenadier/ fusilier/ Infantry type units. R107 carried addition distinctions as a specially named unit and R108 was a Schutzen unit again with its own extra distinctions.

It would be interesting to know when your leather tab and Saxon buckle came together, war time or post war ??? May be a maker was using up left over stock of leather tabs in the period 1916-17 ???

I wonder if "Chip M" has seen this before or not,

Chris

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

Hi Chris: I for sure had nothing to do...with putting the leather tab & the buckle together. It was done way before I was even born

I bought this buckle years ago at an auction where there were approx. 10-15 listed and as the bidding went...the highest bidder could pick one....I picked this one. I selected it due to all the markings and the fact that it has that "I've been there ...I got the t-shirt look!"

[C. Roelens]

Do you have a picture of the backside of the buckle?

Chuck

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

No...I don't have a picture of the back...but I'll get one & post it. Oops on me. I should have taken one but I failed to...and I packed it back into a footlocker which is on the bottom of a bunch of footlockers in the garage. I'll get it tomorrow.

[Chip M]

90th Light,

No, I have never seen this before either, though it is well known that these leather tabs were often made in one state and used on buckles from another state. So, I have no problem with that part. The B.A. marking is another matter. Normally, the B.A. mark was put on at the corps level and not at the manufacturer. So, this is either a shipping error that no one noticed, or something else along that line. Given that it's in virtually unworn condition, I doubt if it was a field repair or something like that.

Chip

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

As stated...here are pictures of the back

[90th Light]

As stated...here are pictures of the back

Thank you Edelweisse,

this gets more interesting. I have never seen a Saxon buckle made like that. Certainly a 1915 to 1916 period buckle, 101% original but perhaps not a Saxon maker. Instead made in one of the other states to fill a Saxon order at the time. In fact the answer might be, it was made in one of "The Three Saxon Duchies (Thuringia) of Altenburg, Coburg-Gotha or Meiningen. The Grand Duchy of Saxe-Weimar-Eiesnach is also a possibility. I must check if any of the Duchies or the Grand Duchy used the Saxon motto. I thought that they all used the Prussian "Gott Mit Uns" and only the Saxons used "Providentiae Memor".

I suppose this also begs the question, has the "Gott Mit Uns" roundel been changed over for the Saxon "Providentiae Memor" roundel. Is the silver paint period ??? It looks to be original in the computer images but computer images can be deceiving. However, it looks correct for the time. Is the solder holding the roundel period and correct for the time the buckle was made ???

Based on the images posted it does look to be an original period variation of a very unusual Saxon buckle but lets see what others think.

Again, given the reverse image (and putting the leather "BAG" marked tab to one side) I wonder if Chip M has seen this type of 15-16 maker of a Saxon buckle and thank him also for his confirmation already regarding the leather tab in post number 8,

Chris

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

Thanks...what you see is what you get...I have no reason to mess with the color or detail of the buckle. I only wanted to know what the "BAG" stood for/meant. Nothing else...I didn't mean for it to get out of hand.

In addition, I wanted to share info... I think that we're all learning. Thanks for your comments.

[90th Light]

Thanks...what you see is what you get...I have no reason to mess with the color or detail of the buckle. I only wanted to know what the "BAG" stood for/meant. Nothing else...I didn't mean for it to get out of hand.

In addition, I wanted to share info... I think that we're all learning. Thanks for your comments.

Hello again Edelweisse,

I do not think that you have messed with the buckle and I am not implying that in any way.

Instead, I am covering all possiblities. An item which is nearly 100 years old, has several times possiblities over time where it could be altered or changed.

It might even be a legitimate period alteration before 1919

My feeling overall, is that you have a period variation from the norm which has not been unofficially touched and is an unusual period example. Certainly one that I have never seen before.

Basically a Saxon belt buckle issued by the Prussian Guards supply depot

But why ???

Chris

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

That's ok ...I'm not offended...and I know you have to cover all the bases and ask all the questions. Chris...I really appreciate both your comments and Chip's. The thread in the tab doesn't look messed with or re-stitched....

[90th Light]

The thread in the tab doesn't look messed with or re-stitched....

Thanks Edelweisse,

I agree the thread sewing on the leather tab looks good and period. We need to keep in mind however, a skilled saddler or similar trade could resew a leather tab as good as that by following exactly the old stitch holes.

[Edelweisse]

Help w/Saxon EM Belt Buckle Markings

Hi Chris:

I understand the questions...I just recall "The Gauleiter" magazine in the early 90's...saying "You know that the collecting bug has gotten to you...when you start doubting the authenticity of the German militaria your Dad bought home from the war.