Complete WWI Austrian M17 Helmet

[C. Roelens]

these are VERY hard to get in this condition, well done

Thank You

[juoneen]

Many times soldiers wrote their names inside in pencil, so another reason to not clean them up at all....the factory markings also get removed if cleaned and waxed, as some will do right away, instead of leaving them alone. I also happened upon one a few years back, and the bear mark is usually stamped in the metal, and on the pads, as this one is. It also appears like it has blood on the strap. It isnt really hard to find, its just the luck of the draw, but you have to get out and look,what you may find might be something less often found, as in this case. I slaute your getting out and hunting, as thats the most important thing, as when one finds something, it isn't know at first what you have till you start researching. People think you did it deliberately, but that is not the case, you find what you find , when you get out and start gunting find it, but nobody goes looking for a berdorfer as the target, you just go hunting for war items, and see what turns up...others that are envious should get off that kick, and just get out this summer, and start hunting, and dont envy anybody, but be inspired to stop just buying from dealers, and hunt first hand for the best stuff at the best prices with the least competition, as the woodwork is the key to success.NO... Its not as easy , but much more satisfying than having to worry about getting stuck with fakes, and taken on the price like buying at the same old shows from the same old dealer sharks,..with just another hollow buy. How do you think dealers get stuff.Congratulations ...its a real nice helm. Never forget to ask the proper questions as to who brought it home, and such, as once you go away,write it all down immmediately, as if you dont take the time to ask... the story is lost on first hand buys...lots of times there is more waiting in the house to see the light if you are smart enough to ask....play every angle always.This is something many greedy self centered collectors won't tell others...so im revealing this to those who are less experienced, and the one tip will help many who never thought of this to find much more just by being inquisitive. Do you care to help other by telling how you came upon the item, or how you found the lead?

[Mac 66]

Hi Chuck, Congrats on your Austrian M17 find

Very Nice Indeed,


Cheers Scott.

[Hoss]

It's tough finding one of these helmets with all of its parts, and has not been messed with. California woodwork Eric.

Chuck

Its wonderful I suppose
All the good lids are ending up in the Roelens Steel Pot Depository.

Eric

[Adler 1]

I think Chuck has bought himself a time machine... and went over a few times. I don't believe those woodworkstories anymore...
Great helmet!

Adler 1

[C. Roelens]

Thanks again for the comments gents... much appreciated.

Chuck

[Enzian]

This is interesting: I think I have one of these helmets. I'm the first buyer of my helmet, bought it in 1964 from the grandson of the man who brought it to the US. I also bought a beauty Pickelhaube from the same.

Mine has the same kind of strap, inner rim, side ink stamp. Mine did not come
with a liner. There are someone's initials scratched on the inside of the bill.
The outside stud of the inside liner ring holder is located IN BACK of the vent lugs--all the German-made WWII coal-scuttles seem to have rivet heads in front of the vent lugs and numeric inside stamps.

Could the poster owning the helmet please show the photos of the helmet from the side and front so I can see for comparison.

With my helmet, the steel is good, but the outer paint job was trashed and had to be restored. It was restored fairly well 30-odd years ago. Yeah, yeah, I know there's many levels of controversy , even when you don't have much choice. I believe I added an increased life to this object. Still, it has always been "my German helmet firsty" . But I've often been baffled by the strap and rivet head placement, and wondered if it was Austrian.

Thanks for any support info, graphic or otherwise!

[C. Roelens]

M17 Hungarian Helmet

After receiving a PM from Eric I did a little research on this helmet. The top of page 365 In Ludwig Baer's book shows a picture of this helmet from the J. Bandy collection.

An excerpt under this picture reads, "The M17 Hungarian helmet, produced by Krupp Berndorfer Metalwarenfabrik after they ceased manufacturing the "Berndorfer" helmet. This helmet closely resembles the Austrian M16 except for the placement and smaller size of the exterior rivets."

My apologies for not doing my homework, I thought all along it was Austrian.

If anybody has any information to add to this please post.

Chuck

[C. Roelens]

This is interesting: I think I have one of these helmets. I'm the first buyer of my helmet, bought it in 1964 from the grandson of the man who brought it to the US. I also bought a beauty Pickelhaube from the same.

Mine has the same kind of strap, inner rim, side ink stamp. Mine did not come
with a liner. There are someone's initials scratched on the inside of the bill.
The outside stud of the inside liner ring holder is located IN BACK of the vent lugs--all the German-made WWII coal-scuttles seem to have rivet heads in front of the vent lugs and numeric inside stamps.

Could the poster owning the helmet please show the photos of the helmet from the side and front so I can see for comparison.

With my helmet, the steel is good, but the outer paint job was trashed and had to be restored. It was restored fairly well 30-odd years ago. Yeah, yeah, I know there's many levels of controversy , even when you don't have much choice. I believe I added an increased life to this object. Still, it has always been "my German helmet firsty" . But I've often been baffled by the strap and rivet head placement, and wondered if it was Austrian.

Thanks for any support info, graphic or otherwise!

Hopefully post #23 will answer your questions.

Chuck

[DaveG]

After receiving a PM from Eric I did a little research on this helmet. The top of page 365 In Ludwig Baer's book shows a picture of this helmet from the J. Bandy collection.

An excerpt under this picture reads, "The M17 Hungarian helmet, produced by Krupp Berndorfer Metalwarenfabrik after they ceased manufacturing the "Berndorfer" helmet. This helmet closely resembles the Austrian M16 except for the placement and smaller size of the exterior rivets."

My apologies for not doing my homework, I thought all along it was Austrian.

If anybody has any information to add to this please post.

Chuck

I still believe it is Austrian or perhaps more appropriatedly Austro-Hungarian. In the book The Emperor's Coat, the authors refer to it as "Austro-Hungarian" Steel Helmet (1917 Model with 1918 Model Lining)". In the third volume of Ludwig Baer's work Vom Stahlhelm zum Kampfhelm Die Geschichte des Ostereicheischen Stahelmes, Teil 1 von 1914 bis 1938, (strangely published out of sequence in 2010, volume IV having been published in 2006) he doesn't refer to it as a model but a variation of the "Berndorfer Helmes" and states "Dieser Helm wird auch ungarischen Herstellen zugeordnet, stammt aber eindeutig aus der Berndorfer Fretigung." ("This helmet is also associated with Hungarian production, but it is clearly out of Berndorfer production."

Dave

[C. Roelens]

I still believe it is Austrian or perhaps more appropriatedly Austro-Hungarian. In the book The Emperor's Coat, the authors refer to it as "Austro-Hungarian" Steel Helmet (1917 Model with 1918 Model Lining)". In the third volume of Ludwig Baer's work Vom Stahlhelm zum Kampfhelm Die Geschichte des Ostereicheischen Stahelmes, Teil 1 von 1914 bis 1938, (strangely published out of sequence in 2010, volume IV having been published in 2006) he doesn't refer to it as a model but a variation of the "Berndorfer Helmes" and states "Dieser Helm wird auch ungarischen Herstellen zugeordnet, stammt aber eindeutig aus der Berndorfer Fretigung." ("This helmet is also associated with Hungarian production, but it is clearly out of Berndorfer production."

Dave

Maybe I had it right then. Thanks for the info Dave.

Chuck

[Bernhard]

My fellow collectors ,

The helmet that started this thread is a first class example of a WWI
Austrian helmet.
As already been stated examples in this condition are very , very hard
to find.

A great helmet in every aspect !!

I would love to own this example as many of the fellow collectorrs surely
would.

On December the 31st 1918 still 44.045 helmets of this kind were in the Berndorf factory and many of them found their way in to the Bundesheer
and saw service between 1918 and 1938.


Best regards

Bernhard


I

[C. Roelens]

My fellow collectors ,

The helmet that started this thread is a first class example of a WWI
Austrian helmet.
As already been stated examples in this condition are very , very hard
to find.

A great helmet in every aspect !!

I would love to own this example as many of the fellow collectorrs surely
would.

On December the 31st 1918 still 44.045 helmets of this kind were in the Berndorf factory and many of them found their way in to the Bundesheer
and saw service between 1918 and 1938.


Best regards

Bernhard


I

Hello Bernhard,

Thank you for this information.

Chuck

[90th Light]

Interesting thread.

Is the "bear" "64" marking on the rear skirt of the helmet Hungarian or Austrian ?

Any information would be much appreciated,

Chris

p.s. more images of this particular helmet http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=621143

[Hoss]

Chris
Isn't the Braunschweig shield somewhat large to be Reichswehr? and the dedication looks recent to me. jmo chum.
The skull? I've no idea.

Eric