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**AOK4** · 04-22-2004, 05:56 AM

That would be black, and red piping.

Jan

**Bob Lembke** · 04-23-2004, 12:44 AM

Waffenfarbe, more detail

Jan is quite correct. I will run my mouth and provide more detail.

The Pioniere famously wore the black with red piping, and were often referred to as the "black service".

The first Minenwerfer units certainly were Pionier Abteilungen, and wore the black. However, were all minenwerfer units throughout the war Pionier Abteilungen? Perhaps someone more knowledgable than I can advise.

I will run through all the German units that had flame-throwers. The first was the Pionier=Versuch=Kompagnie, when, several years before the war, Richard Fiedler had improved his Flammenwerfer designs enough that they were issued to the P=V=K for field testing. After further refinement, his M 1912 unit was issued to some pioneer units (such as Pionier=Bataillon Nr. 11) and to some pioneer siege trains.

Shortly after the war started, Hauptman (Pionier) der Landwehr Dr. jur. Bernhard Reddemann was asked to form the Abteilung Reddemann (originally 48 men, many from the Leipzig fire-fighting service, probably Landwehr Pioniere from Reddemann's company) where Reddemann was the Branddirektor) and then the III. Garde=Pionier=Bataillon (eventually of nine companies), then briefly in addition the IV. Garde=Pionier=Bataillon of only two companies (bet you didn't know that), these two units finally being folded into the Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment. In addition, the II. Garde=Ersatz=Pionier=Bataillon back in Berlin provided support but no combat formations.

As Reddemann's empire grew, the M 1912 Flammenwerfern were withdrawn from the field pioneer battalions and probably sent to him.

The common thread above is that all these flame-thrower units were pioneers, and wore the pioneer blank with red piping.

Each storm battailon, when they were developed, had a Zug of Flammenwerfer from the Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment, but they were periodically rotated and replaced, and wore the black. We know that the Sturm=Bataillon Nr. 5 (Rohr) had a Zug from the Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (my father was detailed to them in this role). Previously in this forum I poo-pooed suggestions that the S=B Rohr, in addition, had Flammenwerfer troops of their own, but recent research hints that this may have been the case, but only a few Truppen, or at most a second Zug.

However, the initiate knows that, of all the sixteen or so storm battalions, only the Sturm=Bataillon Rohr was a pioneer unit, and wore black shoulder-straps.

So, in summation, the Waffenfarbe of all flame-thrower units was the black with the red piping.

I don't know of any Bavarian Flammenwerfer Abteilungen, unless before the war one or more Bavarian field pioneer battalions were issued a few M 1912 units. I doubt this, as the Bavarian Army was rather independent, and all flame-thrower technical development took place in Berlin, Posen, and Leipzig.

Bob Lembke

**wolfpack** · 04-23-2004, 01:42 PM

thank you

Gentlemen,
I am most grateful for your explanation.

Many thanks & regards,
Wolfpack

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:01 PM

Just to clarify, the black shoulder straps with red piping were not worn until 1915. Prior to the war, Mannschaft Pionier straps worn on the Dunkelblau Waffenrock were red with yellow numbers and backed in dark blue. These straps were sewn into the seam.

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/Pionier1.jpg>

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:02 PM

M1907/10 Feldrock - The strap was Feldgrau on both sides. The piping was in
the Corps piping of red and the number was also in red. Issued strap have a
slip-on tongue. M1910 Vereinfachte strap - To save money and time, straps
started to be produced without the colored piping. They were sewn to the top of the shoulder seam to further save time. These straps are called "Vereinfachte" which means "Simplified". Collectors sometimes call these "utility" straps and some even think they are late war, when they are actually pre-1915.

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/Pionier2.jpg>

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:03 PM

M1915 Bluse strap - With the 1915 regulations came new straps for the Army.
Pionier straps as mentioned by Jan and Bob would be black with red numbers
or cyphers. The strap was designed to be sewn to the top of the shoulder
seam. These straps are backed in Feldgrau.

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/stuff/Pionier3.jpg>

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:06 PM

The black cap band and red piping, as well as the black collar and cuff piping combined with red front piping as worn by the Pionier was also used by Artillery and the Verkehrstruppen (Transportation Troops) which included all Eisenbahn (Railway), Telegraphen (Telegraph), Flieger (Flying), Luftschiffer (Balloon and Zeppelin).

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/feldgrau/headgear/fgch14.jpg>

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:08 PM

And now the Schirmmütze. No way to tell if this is Pioneer, Railway, Artillery, Telegraph, or Flieger.

<img src=http://www.kaisersbunker.com/feldgrau/headgear/fgch15.jpg>

**Tony & Kaiser** · 04-24-2004, 01:10 PM

And yes, its raining here so I had nothing better to do.

Tony http://www.kaisersbunker.com/

**Dave Mosher** · 04-24-2004, 05:35 PM

Tony
Nice presentation and great photos!

Dave

**wolfpack** · 04-25-2004, 07:55 AM

thank you

Mr. Tony and 'Mr. Kaiser',
I have been very helpfull with your explanation and photo's.
Many thanks.

Regards,
Wolfpack

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What are the Waffenfarben for Pioniere, Minenwerfer and Flammenwerfer ?

What are the Waffenfarben for Pioniere, Minenwerfer and Flammenwerfer ?

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