Meuse Argonne M16 With History

[ironcross1]

Hello gentlemen, a while ago i picked up this battle damaged M16 , as i do with every new piece im lucky enough to score i go over it with a fine tooth comb .While looking over this lid i thought i could see writing of some sort scratched into the paint ,out with the magnifing glass , well you could guess my reaction when the following inscription came to light .
He got sgt
And he got corp
But we got him
pt Rosen
131 inf
10.10 .18
I contacted the guy i bought the helmet off and asked if he knew of the inscription to which i didnt , he had owned the helmet for over 25 years and never knew it was there .When looking at the helmet you would not pick the writing up unless you look very closely .
I have been trying to do some detective work on trying to find out more on pt Rosen and the 131 inf during the 10 october 1918 , i havent had much luck .I know the 131 was fighting near places called Bois de Chaume , Bois Plat Chene , and Corned Willy Hill , in the Meuse Argonne about this time by reading the book "To Conquer Hell ", but thats about it . If anyone could steer me in the right direction to find out more i would be very greatful , or if anyone has info they would like to share on the 131 , pt Rosen , and the Germans fighting around there at this time that would be greatly received . Hope you injoy viewing the helmet ,cheers Raymond

[ironcross1]

more

[ironcross1]

more pics

[ironcross1]

more of the inscrpition

[MauserKar98k]

Very nice helmet. I'm sorry it is taking me so long to get that information to you. After I get it typed up, I'll probably just post it on this thread.

[MauserKar98k]

Map of the location of the 33rd Infantry Division's attack in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive:
http://www.worldwar1.com/maps/usa381.jpg

Action report of the 131st Infantry Regiment on October 10, 1918:
The mission of the Brigade was to clear the Bois de Chaume and Bois du Plat Chene, and exploit to the second exploitation objective of the Corps. This objective was a line running east from the south edge of the town of Sivry-sur-Meuse east about one kilometer to rising ground, thence along the Reville road extending along the north edge of the ridge to Villeneuve Farm thence east to north and south Grid line 24. Supporting troops on the right, 29th Division, 18th Division (French), 2nd Bn. 104th Field Artillery, 1st Bn. 105th Field Artillery, 1st Bn. 106th Field Artillery (heavy.) Infantry on the immediate right was the 115th Regiment (American.)
The plan of the attack was 1st Bn. 131st Infantry on the right, 3rd Bn. 131st Infantry on the left, move straight north through the woods with flanking patrols from the 3rd Bn. to cover the open ground west of the Meuse River. One 37mm gun and two trench mortars were assigned to each Battalion. The 3rd Bn 130th Infantry to follow through the woods at 500 yards distant as support having been assigned to that duty by verbal orders of the Brigade Commander to C.O. 131st Infantry. The 3rd Battalion on the left, Companies I and M in the assault line, Cos K, less one platoon and L in support. One platoon of Co. K was directed to mop up the west edge of the Bois de Chaume, and send patrols as far as the Meuse River. The advance started on the prescribed hour, but because of the thick woods and underbrush was extremely difficult, many machine gun nests being encountered and disposed of. When the valley which extends into the woods was reached, seven enemy planes flying very low sprayed the line with machine gun fire, and three planes dropped bombs causing four casualties. As soon as troops emerged from the north end of Bois de Chaume into the valley Dans les Vaux, enemy artillery and machine guns put down a counter-barrage on the north edge of the woods, the valley, and the hill beyond. Troops, however, passed through this barrage, reached the objective and dug in on the reverse slope of the hill throwing out a line of outposts consisting of automatic rifle squads beyond the crest for observation and guard against counterattacks. During the advance, a section of the Trench Mortar platoon did good service in knocking out an unknown number of machine guns located in a thicket on the left of the Battalion, also in dispersing a working party operating on the opposite of the hill crest. The 1st Bn. met with considerable resistance because more or less disorganized.[sic] They were unable to get contact liaison with troops on the right. Companies A and D, forming the assaulting echelon reached the objective as planned, but companies B and C were held up by machine gun fire which appeared on their right and were unable to proceed until assistance rendered by two companies of the 3rd Battalion, 129th Infantry passed through them and continued the advance. The 3rd Bn., 129th Infantry in support were ordered to maintain liaison with the 115th Infantry and made no advance. About one hour after reaching positions on the objective, the 3rd Company came up. The Bn. Commander, Captain Burgheim and Battalion Headquarters did not arrive until 4pm, October 10th 1918. At 8:00am, October 11th, a combination company with members of A, E, and D companies reported and were placed on the right. At 2pm, Oct. 10th, while on the objective, a counter attack was repulsed.
Enemy machine guns during the night of Oct. 9-10th had worked around to the rear of the positions held by the 132nd Infantry and the 3rd Battalion of the 129th Infantry in forming up received their fire from the direction of the Consenvoye Wood.
At the end of the day, the 3rd Bn., 129th Infantry were on the extreme right, at Magenta farm, a portion of the 1st Bn. on their left, and the remainder forward on the objective. The 3rd Bn., 130th Infantry were ordered to follow at about 500 yards, the 129th Infantry with special instructions to support the right went foward through the enemy's barrage which caught them as they entered the valley south of the Bois du Plat-Chene. Apparently, enemy machine guns were continually filtering on the right were the 115th Infantry was supposed to be as this Battalion reported a machine gun nest which completely swept the territory over which their advance was made. Company M went forward to its first objective, but companies I and K were disorganized. The Battalion Commander rallied such positions as he could find and sent them forward by detachments, placing them under the command of the Commanding Officer of Co. M. The scattered remains of Companies I and K were collected together the next morning, Oct. 11, reformed, brought under control and moved into supporting position. Major Bittel, the Battalion Commander went forward, reorganized his position, and displayed rare judgment in making his dispositions. The failure of troops on the right to advance subjected this Battalion and all other troops in the advance to terrific artillery fire consisting of HE, shrapnel, and gas, as well as flanking machine gun fire, resulting in many casualties.
During the afternoon of the 10th, it became evident that no support would be forthcoming from our troops on the right. Many messages came in reciting the fact that [our] troops were under heavy machine gun fire, shell, and gas. Nine enemy planes sprayed the lines with machine gun fire for five minutes without opposition. Later the raid was repeated. Enemy troops started working around the right flank in small squads. One recently assigned Major, who had never been in action before, was inclined to be panicky, and more or less disorganization existed in some of the three Regimental Detachments and Machine gun companies scattered as they were through the woods.
After consultation with the Brigade Commander, it was decided to hold a line with detachments and to dig in a defensive position in the valley Dans les Vaux through the woods east to Grid Line 24 [which position was] to be held at all costs. Lieutenant Colonel Stansfield, 132nd Infantry, who was in reserve was given instructions to order the work. It was impossible to complete parts of this line during daylight. Work was continued at intervals when opportunity permitted. Not much progress was made in the way of connecting the entire line, but individual units dug in the best they could. Major Bittel did especially good work in preparing his position, cutting out the underbrush, wiring approaches, etc.

Source: The History of the 33rd Division, A.E.F., where there are many more reports of the 131st Infantry's service in France.
http://books.google.com/books?id=wHY...page&q&f=false

NY Times article on the 33rd Division (PDF file.) It would appear that the 131st Infantry suffered more casualties in France than any of the other regiments in the 33rd Division.
http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive...B3668382609EDE


German units noted as being in the general area of the 131st Infantry and the 33rd Division attack were:
23rd Bavarian Infantry Regiment (First Class)
439th Infantry Regiment (one of the best on the Eastern Front) [after 11 October]
365th Infantry Regiment (strong, little training, low morale)
24th Landwehr Infantry Regiment (Fourth Class)
82nd Landwehr Infantry Regiment (Fourth Class)
15th Landwehr Infantry Regiment (strong, little training, low morale)

There were also some Austro-Hungarian units in the area, but this helmet is not Austrian, so those units are not relevant.

Source: The History of the 33rd Division, A.E.F.


German Defenses in the Meuse-Argonne Sector:
http://www.meuse-argonne.com/Randys%...rg%20Meuse.jpg
http://www.meuse-argonne.com/Randys%...8_ABMC_190.jpg

[ironcross1]

Holy molly , many thanks for your time and effort Anthony,awesome stuff mate some really interesting info there and more i can follow up on .Im pleased theres some info you found on the german units there at the time , thanks again , cheers mate Raymond

[MauserKar98k]

Holy molly , many thanks for your time and effort Anthony,awesome stuff mate some really interesting info there and more i can follow up on .Im pleased theres some info you found on the german units there at the time , thanks again , cheers mate Raymond

You're very welcome. As always, I'm glad to help out. I can't say for certain that the 131st Infantry Regiment fought against these specific German regiments in the Meuse-Argonne Offensive (I tried to match the descriptions of their positions with towns on Google maps, they were to the SE of the 33rd Division's initial position, east of Verdun I believe), but they were definitely in the area.

I highly recommend you check out that book about the 33rd Division, it is filled with excellent info on the activities of the 131st Infantry in the Meuse-Argonne sector.

Good luck with the further research.

[langemarck]

great helmet and very interesting information

[C. Roelens]

I like it Raymond. Some collectors don't like the battle damaged stuff, but I do. It's amazing what you might find on or in these old helmets when you take them outside in direct sunlight and look them over closely. Congrats!

Chuck

[ironcross1]

Thanks Langemarck and Chuck , i to love the battle damage stuff pleased you like the lid , cheers guys Raymond

[PlaceOfBayonets]

I don't care for battle damage but it's my aim to pick up one good battle damged helmet. Something like this one in the thread that you know is legit or has a story to tell.

Also notice the small bullet hole in the rear next to the liner pin hole. Entry but no exit. What kinda bullet on that battle field would be stopped by a German's head and one layer of helmet's steel? Or did the bullet expand and break out the front?

W.

[MauserKar98k]

I don't care for battle damage but it's my aim to pick up one good battle damged helmet. Something like this one in the thread that you know is legit or has a story to tell.

Also notice the small bullet hole in the rear next to the liner pin hole. Entry but no exit. What kinda bullet on that battle field would be stopped by a German's head and one layer of helmet's steel? Or did the bullet expand and break out the front?

W.

Do you think that the explosive exit on the front is from that bullet?

In relation to this, I would have a very hard time believing that all this damage occurred in battle. From the arrangement of the holes, it looks like target-practice helmet after the action was over. Specifically, it looks like it was placed on something, a couple shots were taken at it, it fell off whatever it was placed on, and they kept shooting at it on the ground, the bullets knocking the helmet this way and that. This would explain the shots coming in from all angles.

I'm not saying that some of the damage couldn't have taken place while it was being worn however.

BTW, ironcross, what is the maker and size of this helmet again?

[ironcross1]

Hello Mauserkar98k , iv had a good look and there are no maker marks or size stamps any where , cheers Raymond

[MauserKar98k]

Hello Mauserkar98k , iv had a good look and there are no maker marks or size stamps any where , cheers Raymond

That's strange. They are marked exactly where they are on a WWII German helmet, one or two letters and a two digit number on the left side of the skirt, directly in between where the visor begins and the chinstrap post (as the helmet is facing forward.)



Most of them also have some kind of batch number stamped on the very bottom of the dome as the helmet is upside down, but this is mostly meaningless to us collectors since we don't have the records and the bullet damage looks like it obliterated it anyway.