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**cousette** · 06-03-2010, 02:04 AM

Be happy be cool

Originally posted by Chip M View Post

cousette,

I'm curious as to why you say that two units used an emblem.

I am not so sure about your "ceremonial" statement. I know that Garde helmets were brought back as souvenirs by American soldiers, who faced the 1.Garde division. And I know of at least one photo that shows helmet insignia being worn in the field. I can understand being skeptical, as there is a lack of photographic evidence from field photos, but I think it is a bit of a stretch to say that these helmets were of a ceremonial nature.

Chip

I'm curious as to why you say that two units used an emblem. :

According to Ludwig Bauer.

the two units are : firtst foot guard regiment and the first guard signal battallion.

I know only one picture :

could you have the kidness to show us your field's picture. Thank's, this documents will be vert great for our knowledge.

On the picutre you can see the emblem's helmet on a ceremony. After the ceremony, it's not it in step of reason that helmet had been cleaned..I totally agree with the fact that we can found on battlefields.

Even if the measure is generalized in all regiment, the number do not have to exceed 5000 helmets

I am in total agreement with chip. It's Highly possible to find a n authentical in the midlewest before 1983. Why this years ? Because is the year of the editing of the english translation of the Baer's books. After this date the guard's helmet were worldwide know. And copies begin to be made.

Concerning Imperial's helmet's as usual he uses the truth truncated.

I was banished because I demonstrated that a room(part,play) was a forgery by making the same as before. And that about members ( 3 ) blackmailed in resignations. The reason major is a various very personal with one of the moderators..
He(It) it straight from had a poll(sounding) which condemned for one very great majority my banishment and asked my return. I am members moreover again of the forum.
This is the truth, the comments of imperial helmet, are only defamation.
And I find shameful to come to lie on an US forum, country or the truth is one truths virtue.

For those helmets, I less to him his arguments.

And for the leather of use it is another lie. Debates is not on the use by German. It is even I that is supplied to him with the photos of wartimes showing pig leathers in German helmets.
But the question concerns the use after war of pig leathers by the Czechoslovakia.
In effect, man sent me an helmet fromAfghanistan, an Austrian helmet M16, repainted in Czech's green, with a Czech liner (metal different from German and Czech green) leather white with white pork.
Imperial helmet say that it does not have existed, while I have the liner in hands.

I know that it disturbs many of shown that many of stahlhelm were modified by foreign countries or by collector.
But this truth deserves a debate, but not with commercial's arguments.

If someone Have information on the stahlhelm's liner from other countrys it would be great.

**ROBB** · 06-03-2010, 02:05 AM

Number 1 looks typical of the fakes . 2 and 3 owned by Imperial helmets look great , I love the badly made shell of number 3 . Rob

**LA MITRAILLE** · 06-03-2010, 02:13 AM

hello stéphane, and everybody,

I think that to speak about camo, about guard or about the machine gunners's helmets is lost time, each has his own opinion, the own way it analyzes, and there will be always persons as cousette who will think that everything is copy, that it has never existed....

Picture of a guard helmet.......good or not?

regards

David

**imperialhelmets** · 06-03-2010, 02:37 AM

Hi again

I see that this topic is quite of interest since we have many contributions in a very short time ....

David, Yours look great ! I like it ...
Concerning Ludwig Bauer, he does not say that only 2 regiments wore this insignia, he says that photos exist showing 2 units wearing this insignia, that's quite different.... Concerning my second helmet, the one that was varnished, there's a "3" before the shield and I always wondered if it could not be a reference to a 3 rd regiment (Guard grenadier ?)
concerning cousette and his previous comment "What was this poor soldier part of. 'The Shell Fragment In The Back Of The Neck Ceremony'?, I understand now that he accepts the idea that these helmets were also used in combat so I suppose that he drops this remark.

**PlaceOfBayonets** · 06-03-2010, 02:59 AM

Cousette,

The Photo of the Crown Prince inspecting his troops and possibly giving out medals does not in any way suggest that the helmet with painted insignia were not also worn in combat as we know they certainly were as others have said by the fact that American Troops brought them home after the war and sent them in the mail during the war.
When reading English as a second language don't read into things too deeply making your own assumptions.

W.

**cousette** · 06-03-2010, 03:40 AM

A translator is often a liar

Originally posted by PlaceOfBayonets View Post

Cousette,

The Photo of the Crown Prince inspecting his troops and possibly giving out medals does not in any way suggest that the helmet with painted insignia were not also worn in combat as we know they certainly were as others have said by the fact that American Troops brought them home after the war and sent them in the mail during the war.
When reading English as a second language don't read into things too deeply making your own assumptions.

And pe

W.

When reading English as a second language don't read into things too deeply making your own assumptions

It's 100 % true.

I do not deny that these helmets were in fights. Somebody has you he the original text in German. The German version is more complete and more detailed. It would be the solution.
If as imperial helmets we interpret the text as " it is not said that the other units is carried the emblem ". Then why, my interpretation (2 unity) it is false? the two interpretation have the same value.

Thus here are of the truths questions, because discuss it on the false truths cannot be cut with certainty on photos. Graze a thing is just it, there is more forgery than the truths. And that whoever can make a forgery.

Thus real questions:

How many regiments.

Origin of the emblem, on helmets or on all the helmets the text of Baer gives sure answer. He just says that photos of wartimes proves the existence.

For the honest, you should not be a judge and complain. Thus, not said my helmet is good. But said the helmet of so-and-so is good.

And can be that alone "la mitraille" is in the way of the wisdom.

**Hoss** · 06-03-2010, 05:29 AM

Originally posted by imperialhelmets View Post

concerning cousette and his previous comment "What was this poor soldier part of. 'The Shell Fragment In The Back Of The Neck Ceremony'?, I understand now that he accepts the idea that these helmets were also used in combat so I suppose that he drops this remark.

Stefen
This was my comment not Cousette.
David
Your helmet is what I considered to be an example of a true original before I got all confused.

A note on liner pads: I thought the dark pads were made from 'pigskin' and the white was 'goatskin'.
Or Iam I confused about that too!

Eric

**cousette** · 06-03-2010, 05:57 AM

Originally posted by 704hoss55 View Post

A note on liner pads: I thought the dark pads were made from 'pigskin' and the white was 'goatskin'.
Or Iam I confused about that too!

Eric

Good question.

Pig leather :Long-lasting and valuable leather. Granular on both sides of the fact of the thick hairs of the pig, which leave scars and perforing.

this description didn't match on white leather. But that is match with mine copie liner (I 'm mad I collect the copy's to do comparaison).

The goat leather is fine and smooth, it's match better with the white leather. The sheep and horse match better to.

**C. Roelens** · 06-03-2010, 08:46 AM

Originally posted by imperialhelmets View Post

Hi guys,

for your info, mister "cousette" has been kicked out on April 17Th of the French main forum. ("banni" in french means banned) ..... No comment.

http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum.n...profile&u=1797

Is seems that he reappeared on April 18Th, under another pseudo "bibi", with the same kind of "posts".
http://lagrandeguerre.cultureforum.n...profile&u=1921

Concerning my helmets, the battled damaged one was bought on April 15Th 2003 in the US, maybe in the midwest, I have sent today an email to the seller to get his address :-), when prices on ebay had not yet risen as today, (455 USD),

the other one was bought to a fellow collector who has now his own private museum in Belgium not far from France, that was in the 80s, very cheap, 200 french francs = 30 USD, unfortunately it had been cleant and the owner applied varnish on it, it's interesting anyway for the "3" before the shield.

You'll find some good pics of these helmets on my website, I just uploaded them yesterday, hope you'll enjoy them :-) .... Nothing is for sale and my aim is just to provide good pics to help identify good items and detect fakes.

http://www.imperialhelmets.com/stahl...asques-dacier/

There are some fakes on these helmets, not so many, but usually they are rather easy to spot.... so far !

Concerning Charles's remark, I find it a bit straight, but we had an argument together once, that's maybe the explanation :-) ?

Totally agree with Chips' and Charles' remarks concerning the "ceremonial" assessment by Cousette, I never heard that and it seems to be a personnal speculation not based on any "scientific" approach. On the french forum, cousette also assess that no original stahlhelm liner should be made of pork leather.... We all have or know 100% original helmets with pork leather liner..... If you read french, you'll find more speculations of this kind on the french forum, by this member.

kind regards,

Steve

Steve,

I'll start off by saying, "the past, is the past... water under the bridge".

Secondly, I was too hasty with my reaction to your two Guard's helmets Eric posted. I apologize for that. After carefully reviewing them on your site I like what I see. IMO they are both excellent examples.

Best Regards,

Chuck

**C. Roelens** · 06-03-2010, 08:49 AM

Originally posted by LA MITRAILLE View Post

hello stéphane, and everybody,

I think that to speak about camo, about guard or about the machine gunners's helmets is lost time, each has his own opinion, the own way it analyzes, and there will be always persons as cousette who will think that everything is copy, that it has never existed....

Picture of a guard helmet.......good or not?

regards

David

David,

IMO, that's a beauty!

Chuck

**imperialhelmets** · 06-03-2010, 10:05 AM

more..

Hi Chuck, thanks for your comment and hope you appreciated the website, by pure hasard I took the pics some days ago, that's good material to discuss this matter

Sorry Eric, I apologize, I mixed Goat and pork, I wanted in fact to refer to this late-war white leather liner pads that are found mainly mounted on steel circle, some collectors and authors call them pattern 1917.
kind regards
Steve

**Chip M** · 06-03-2010, 11:49 PM

When cousette said "only two unit's use a Emblem's helmet", I thought he meant that there was more than one emblem used on helmets during WWI. I was curious to know what other emblem he was talking about. Now, I understand that he meant that there were only two units that wore the Garde=Schild. What he should have said was that he only knows of two. There were others. I would refer you to a 1990s article in the "Zeitschrift für Heereskunde" on this very subject. One of the helmets shown is individually marked in the rear skirt to a soldier in the 1.Garde=Feldartillerie=Rgt. My supposition has been that this insignia was worn by the entire 1st Garde Division.

Regarding the authority of Baer on this subject, I can tell you that he wrote to me back in the early 1980s, asking about this insignia. He was not the first to identify it (nor was I) and he was also groping for answers like everyone else. The truth of the matter is that we don't know a whole lot more about the history of this insignia than that which we first discovered some thirty years ago.

And by the way, there was another shield worn on German helmets during WWI, but that is a story for another day.

Chip

**Justin** · 06-04-2010, 07:28 AM

Must agree this helmet makes me pause. Just the general look of the camo and the way the shield is. Something I would not buy of the internet.

**Hoss** · 06-04-2010, 07:29 PM

Originally posted by Chip M View Post

And by the way, there was another shield worn on German helmets during WWI, but that is a story for another day.

Chip

Chip
Its another day!
Sir
I heard once of a Garde shield WW1 that was painted in twohalves, White/Black instead of the normal quadrant, late 18?

Here,s a couple of pics you,ve probably seen before. The prisoner on the left helping to carry wounded taken at Moeuvres sept.1918. Note the what looks like a shield on his helmet.
The second is two artillery (German?) soldiers with insignia. taken 1918.
Both photos are from the Imperial War Museum in London.

Regards
Eric

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**Chip M** · 06-04-2010, 08:22 PM

Good job Eric! That second photo was one of a series taken of an Infanterie=Geschütz team. The colors are those of Baden, gold and red. I actually have a friend that has had one of these for many years. Back in the day, these shields were lumped into the Freikorps/Einwohnerwehr category, as were the Hohenzollern shields. The few who knew what they were proceeded to quietly pick up every one they could find.

Chip

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