I would like to get some opinions on this eBay auction. Please let me know what you think.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...=STRK:MEWAX:IT
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Hi Uhlan,
Imo it's a fake...
These plates were stamped and due to the techniques they used in those days, there are normally some production marks on the original plates. On this plate no marks are visible...
The shape of the plate doesn't look right eighter, it's to round on the top...
The strap looks artificially aged and so it is... the rivets are not the correct type.
On all the original examples I've seen, there was a makers mark. On this one there isn't. I don't know this is nessecary, but the ones without makers mark I've seen, were all repro...
I hope this helps you,
Adler 1 -
I agree. There's another one currently listed on ebay strapped to a helmet.Originally posted by Adler 1 View Post
ChuckComment
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Hello,
Normally, but some have none.there are normally some production marks on the original plates
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Brow Plates
I agree with JR92,
I,ve seen two originals without any marks. One was from a bunker! The inside was still in good enough shape you would of expect to see something even faintly and suspended it still rang sharp and clear like a bell.
I have to say so far I like the one for sale by the Arizona seller. It shows the correct profile, the round front and a tendency to straighten towards the top (Austrain plates continue in a more rounded shape or so I,ve noticed) and a more pronounced flare on the top of the helmet visor (Austrians less so) but forget the strap! Another point I like is the uneven edge as shown in the photo of my original.
Iam sure the gentleman selling it would allow an inspection period.
EricComment
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2Comment
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JR92 and Eric,
Neither one of you mentioned anything about the straps. The plate itself may be good as you say. Rarely do you find these with good leather... I would like to hear your opinions on these straps...
ChuckComment
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Eric,
The Arizona seller is selling a pretty nice helmet, with brow plate attached for $725.00 BIN. It's been listed for several days and would be one hell of a good deal if original. I'm not convinced the plate is original otherwise I would have hit the BIN button as soon as the auction came up. It could turn out to be a smokin deal for someone.
ChuckComment
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Gentlemen, I think my explanation wasn't clear enough and maybe things got mixed up here...
Sorry for that...
By pruduction marks I mean some significant marks (not stamps) that are on the plate, due to the fabrication process of the plate...
When you punch holes in a steel plate or you cut the plate, the cutting edge will always be under an angle. In the beginning of last century, tolerances were much higher than the last decades. On the original plates the angle of the punching and cutting the edges is differant than on the originals. Also the sharp edges were grinded off. I see none off these marks on this plate.
By makers mark I mean a stamp of the maker...
I wrote the following: On all the original examples I've seen, there was a makers mark. On this one there isn't. I don't know this is nessecary, but the ones without makers mark I've seen, were all repro...
Hereby I just say that I don't know if there is always a makers mark, but that the ones I have seen always had one...
So, I still say this one is a reproduction (and so is the one from the Arizona Guy), and the other ones shown here are original...
Adler
Here some pictures for comparison:
Pic 1: Rounded top of stirnpanzer for sale versus top of original
Pic 2 & 3: Production marks on 2 different originals
Pic 4: Smoother finish of stirnpanzer for sale versus Eric's original (notice makers stamp on Eric's)
Pic 5: Chinstrap rivets of stirnpanzer for sale verus original rivets
Last edited by Adler 1; 02-18-2010, 04:18 AM.Comment
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You guys are the best.
I haven't held an original brow plate in over 25 years, and my memory just isn't that good... you pinpointed what I suspected were problem areas. I'm pulling away from the WWI USMC stuff this year to refocus solely on WWI German headgear (leather and steel). If any of you should have, or, happen to find an original brow plate for sale please email or PM.
ChuckComment
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Hey Chuck, why not pull the BIN aiction and inspect it? If I was still working at the mill I'd do it. If you like the helmet and want to sell the repro brow plate I might be intersted. My repro is brand new and shinny looking.
WilliamComment
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Chuck,Originally posted by C. Roelens View Post
On the Midwest job the strap is old and wrong. the buckle lands right on top of the rear rivet. It should be very much to one side.
The other plate strap is just something a collector added for display, the hardware is,nt even German. These,s nothing wrong with that, we all like to show off our nice stuff. I ,ve been looking again at the Arizona plate. I was in the same mind as Alder 1 a few days ago but take a look again, its really got me scratching! Love a hands on.
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I'm bringing this thread back to the top. I received the helmet with brow plate in question. It passes all of the know tests that I was made aware of, and I believe it to be an original. I will get pics up this afternoon for additional comments one way or the other.
ChuckComment
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Pic #1.Comment
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The leather straps are very old, but not original to these plate's. There are at least two repaint's, with very old original patina showing in some areas. Otherwise, it passes inspection, and all known tests. What do you think?
ChuckComment
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