World War 1 German Tank troop uniforms

[usmedalman]

The only thread I could find on this topic is 3 years old, so rather than revive a long-dead thread, I decided to create a new one.

I understand from the 2007 thread that there was no "armored branch" during ww1 as in WW2. So, does anyone have color photographs of WW1 uniforms of the type which would have been worn by German tank troops during the war? Particularly with the Garde Litzen mentioned in this earlier thread.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[Hoss]

usmedalman,
The men were all volunteers. Officers wore the uniforms of their former regiments. Crews wore issue Guard uniforms indicating they were elite troops. There was a special uniform (photo) but the crews rarely if ever wore it in case of being taken prisoner allthough some wore leather jackets or jerkins over their fieldgrey.
In 2001 I had the pleasure of visiting the A7V sturmpanzerwagen 506 'MEPHISTO' in Australia and talked a length with one of the staff at the Queensland Museum.

Eric

[Chip M]

Actually, the enlisted men wore the uniform of the Kraftfahrkorps, which included collar Litzen. They were not really Guard troops. Most of the uniforms of the Verkehrstruppen were based on that of the Garde Pioniere and that is where the confusion comes in. The shoulder straps were the normal Kraftfahrer ones, light gray with a red "K" (second from the left in the picture).

Chip


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[Chip M]

Here are examples of what the M1915 enlisted man's and officer's collar Litzen would have looked like. The M15 Kraftfahr officer would have had silver wire down the center of each Litze.




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[Hoss]

Tank Troops

Chip,
The point I was trying to make. There was no 100% set uniform for the tank crews. These men were all volunteers (or made to volunteer!) The Officer rank litzen etc: was added to their officer regimental uniform unless they allready came from the Motor Corps (Kraftfahrkorps).Its pretty safe to assume the driver (usually an NCO) and his reserve along with the two mechanics did wear a pure transport or motor corps uniform again coming from that branch of service.The men were not Guard but they needed something to make the enlisted men stand out as Elite troops these were given tunics or parts thereof like your examples. Not all the men dreesed like this some of the mg gunners were Sharpshooters (MGSs) they would continue in their original uniforms of their Abteilungen.
Allthough the A7V looks huge it was very cramped inside carrying as many as 22 men with a headroom of no more than 1.5 metres!
I,ll post a couple of interesting pictures.

Regards
Eric

[Hoss]

A7V Tank personal

This relaxed photo shows: on the right Leutnant Block who was wounded during the battle of Villers-Bertonneux. Center is Leutnant Bartens he was killed 9 June 1918. Left is Leutnant Volckheim (note the MG badge) he was wounded in the last A7V tank battle 11 October 1918.

[Hoss]

The Tank

This great photo is of 'HAGEN' put out action by GERMAN artillery during action at Fremicourt 31August 1918. On display at the Horse Guards Parade untill early 20,s. When a child seriously injured its hand playing with one of the doors it was removed and scrapped. On cutting it up at the breakers yard the tank kept 'exploding' due to live mg rounds behind the armour plating!

Eric

[usmedalman]

Gret Info

Thanks for a great discussion and pics so far.

I just picked up "German Tanks in World War I" by Schneider and Sreasheim (the only book on WWI that I have) and read that: "While machinegunners and artillerymen continued to wear the uniforms of their old regiments, the drivers wore the insignia of their original troop unit, the guard Motor Vehicle Battalion."

If this info is still considered accurate (book was published in 1988), I take it to mean that the drivers wore Kraftfahr soulder tabs and collar litzen while the gunners wore whatever was their original regt. and branch. Would this be correct?

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hello Gentlemen,

Great topic to discuss.

'Mephisto' was my playground during my childhood. The A7V, prior to relocating to the present premises which house the Queensland Museum, was stored outside the old museum building. It was open and accessible and a source of pure joy to a lad of ten! That was, sadly, 40+ years ago.

It was a wonderful place to play for a boy fascinated by all things German; military; WW1. A really very good childhood memory!

As to the topic at hand: Some years ago a small book was authored by one of the curators at the Museum on the history of the 'Mephisto'. I was fortunate enough to contribute some information which I had acquired, via research of my own, to that publication.

There were four distinct categories of personnel associated with the early tanks:-

1. Drivers (Kraftfahrer);
2. Gunners/artillerymen;
3. Machine-gunners;
4. Technical troops, ie. pioneers, signallers, etc.

The qualifications of the various individuals were needed, given the differing tasks necessary to be performed in one of these monsters. There are a number of garments held in the collection of the Australian War Memorial which were taken at the time 'Mephisto' was captured. Amongst these are a field cap ('pork pie', if you will) bearing Technical Troops piping; a tunic with the shoulderboards appropriate to Heavy (as opposed to Field) Artillery and another bearing the shoulderboard cypher of a Communications trooper.

As with the personnel added to the Fiegertruppe, after the commencement of hostilities (there being no tanks in 1914, as we all know), those troops continued to wear the uniforms appropriate to their original branch of service. The only specialised items of 'uniform' (if that is an appropriate descriptive) are of the type depicted in post #2 above. Such specialized garments were necessary for operating (and fighting) in the confines of one of these Leviathans.

Hope these comments are of assistance.

Best regards,

Hugh

[Hoss]

Hugh,
Excellent info
I,ve seen it to, shame its behind glass now. Did you play in it when it was on the sidewalk?

Eric

[Chip M]

Guys,

Here's what Kraus says in his book. "Die feldgraue Uniformierung des deutschen Heeres 1907-1918". On September 29th 1917 according to a prussian decree, the troops of the newly formed Sturm-Panzer-Kraftwagen-Abteilungen were to be outfitted in the uniform of the Kraftfahrtruppen. Over half of the volunteers came from the Kraftfahrkorps. Other troops came from the Nachtrichtentruppen, field artillery and MG-Truppen. These troops were hesitant to give up their "Frontsoldat" uniforms for those of an "Etappenformation", meaning a lines-of-communication unit (the Kraftfahrtruppen). So the soldiers from the infantry were outfitted with uniforms from the 1.Garde Regiment zu Fuß, the artillerists the uniform of the 1.Garde Feldart.Rgt. However, in April of 1918 the the M.G and artillery personnel were now to be drawn from Kraftfahr-Ersatz-Abt. (training/replacement detachement) and therefore had to wear their uniform.

So while there was no one universal uniform, there were rules and enlisted men were not allowed to wear the uniform of the unit they came from, but rather were given new uniforms per the Kriegs-Ministerium decree. Starting with the order from April 1918, replacement troops would have had a Kraftfahrer uniform.

Chip

[Hugh Zillmann old]

Hi Chip,

April 1918 was the start of the Kaiserschlacht. Thereafter, until November 1918, I imagine that everyone was rather busy on the Western Front and matters of uniform re-issue were probably not of the highest priority. In any event, I can only go on the evidence recovered with 'Mephisto' (which I have seen).

I don't doubt that the regulations specified what was to be in wear, I just doubt that circumstances would have allowed (or been able to handle) such a broad spectrum re-issue at a time when rations and munitions would have been a priority for transportation to front -line units (which these crews were).

I think this is a case where the reality and the theoretical are two different concepts.

Eric, in the 1960's it was 'housed' outside the Museum building with a little purpose-built roof over it. You could walk around it; touch it; hug it; climb inside it and play to your heart's content....which I did...regularly.

Cheers,

Hugh

[Chip M]

Hugh,


I agree that these regulations were just what was on paper and what actually happened may have been very different, as has been the case in all wars. I'm just relaying what the regulations were.

Best regards,
Chip

[Tony & Kaiser]

Great reading. But....

No comments on the straps in Chip's posting #3 which would make any Imperial strap collector weep?

(And he did not even put the leather one in the line-up)

[Chip M]

Tony,

OK, just for you.