Bavarian Field grey Tunic Question

[Albert]

Dear All,

What is the meaning of the piping on this 1915 dated tunic. The front flap is piped in red, but the collar has black piping.

Thanks and best regards,

Albert

[Albert]

The unit stamp is inked out but with reveresed colors one can clearly read Inf. Rgt. 23.

[JS1]

The color of the piping down the front, around the collar, the rear skirt formation, the cuffs, etc.. indicate the branch of service on field-grey model 1907/10 uniforms.

See also more info see the book published by Schiffer :
http://home.scarlet.be/~tse02026/Bookpage.htm

Black piping around collar and cuffs for this type of single breasted model 1907/10 tunics, indicate artillery troops, train, kraftfahrer, techincal troops, etc..

Cavalry troops follow there own schema and tunic designs.

Hope this helps

JS

[Albert]

Thanks JS,

So does that translate to this guy most likely being artillery, enineer, etc. in an Infantry Regiment?

BR,
Albert

[Paul B]

Hello Albert

A very interesting tunic. It seems to be a Bavarian vereinfachte (simplified) M1910 tunic which has seen some alterations over the years.

The basic design is that of the standard M1910, complete with Bavarian "Lion" buttons, but notice the simple cuffs which are indicative of simplified Bavarian M1910 tunics.

The stampings inside also indicate issue to Bavarian Infantry Regiment Nr 23, part of the Second Bavarian Army Corps.

So far, so good. However, it looks like the collar has been replaced at some point. Initially this tunic would have had a standard M1910 style collar piped in red like the rest of the tunic. I've included a photo of a Prussian M1910 tunic in my own collection to show you what I mean. At some point your tunic has had the collar replaced with a higher fitting type (usually M1910 collars close with one -or more rarely, two- collar hooks) which is piped in black. As others have said, a combination of black collar piping and red front piping does indicate technical troops, artillery, etc.

It's very hard to find M1910 tunics in theri original configurations these days, as many were either worn to destruction or repaired, altered and re-issued during their service lives. The replaced collar on your tunic could be wartime or immediately post-war. I think it's less like to be more recent than that, although to be honest it's difficult to say. Either way, it's still a nice, interesting tunic.

Any chance of photos of the rear, lining, belt support buttons, etc.

To summarise, then it started life as a simplified M1910 Bavarian infantry tunic issued to member of Infantry Regt 23. Some time later the collar was replaced with a new collar indicating service with technical troops, artillery, etc.

Hope this is of some help, all the best

Paul.

[Albert]

...
Any chance of photos of the rear, lining, belt support buttons, etc.

To summarise, then it started life as a simplified M1910 Bavarian infantry tunic issued to member of Infantry Regt 23. Some time later the collar was replaced with a new collar indicating service with technical troops, artillery, etc...

Hello Paul,

Thank you very much! After giving the jacket a close look I can say that what you suggested above makes perfect sense. The collar has been with the jacket for ever and has see some hard times. it shows consistant wear and more. There clearly are signs of an NCO Tresse and button. So it could have been an Inf draftee who made it to NCO in an Inf unit, hence the modified collar and added technical branch color.

Here are additional photos. Let me know if you'd like to see more.

Best regards,

Albert

[Albert]

1. View of the collar with field wear signs:

[Albert]

Side view with the darker color where the NCO Tresse used to be, and a slot for the NCO button:

[Albert]

Back view with the darker color where the NCO Tresse used to be:

[Albert]

Inside view of color with two closure hooks / catches:

[Albert]

View of back:

[Albert]

View of lining:

[Paul B]

Hello Albert

Excellent photos. The collar certainly looks like a war-time piece of work -as you say, it's obvious where NCO tresse has been attached, and it was very common for NCOs to have their issue tunics retailored to include a higher officer style collar.

I've included a photo of a senoir NCOs tunic in my collection -like yours this is entirely an issue piece, and it appears that the original collar was taken off and then re-affixed in a higher style -again a very common NCO affectation.

What you have is a very nice original issue WWI combat tunic -so much harder to acquire than private purchase tunics of the same period- certainly a good piece to hang on to. Yours is complete with most of the features you'd look for on a good issue piece -the one-colour lining and sewn in belt hooks are typical of the post 1914 M1910 tunics, and as I said before it also has the unique Bavarian style simplified cuffs. There may also be traces of a field-dressing pocket on the inside left coat flap. I haven't seen a Bavarian M1910 for sale for at least 10 years so they're certainly not common.

All the best

Paul.

[Albert]

Hello Paul,

Thank you very much for the excellent explanation and photos of some beautiful field-grey Rocks. You must have a fabulous collection!

One last question then. I have this visor and after what was written:

I believe it to be a perfect match for this tunic. Is that correct?

Thanks and

Kind regards,

Albert

[Paul B]

Hello Albert

Many thanks for your kind words. That's a very nice example of a Bavarian technical troops visor -which makes it an exact match for the tunic you have... They should look superb displayed together.

All the best

Paul.