Wehrwolf Cap

[Brian Calkins]

Witness for the defense

Robin,
Drop a pic on this thread of the whole inside of your cap. If this is a case of mistaken identity...then that should clear it up.

[Chip M]

So, judging from the cockades on this cap, it most likely was a Weimar army officer's cap. I suppose that it could also have been a Stahlhelmbund cap, if these cockades had been added later. I would think that an early Weimar army cap would be worth more than a Stahlhelm cap (but not worth as much as a Wehrwolf cap!). If one has the correct insignia, one can make it whatever one wants.

Chip

[Wehrwolf 1923]

Robin,
Drop a pic on this thread of the whole inside of your cap. If this is a case of mistaken identity...then that should clear it up.

Brian, look the thread and read Robin's answer:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...=146852&page=7

"Well, I'm happy with the cap........and, to be honest, that's all that matters to me.

It's the nearest thing I'll ever get to a good representative example."

[torstenbel]

So, judging from the cockades on this cap, it most likely was a Weimar army officer's cap. I suppose that it could also have been a Stahlhelmbund cap, if these cockades had been added later. I would think that an early Weimar army cap would be worth more than a Stahlhelm cap (but not worth as much as a Wehrwolf cap!). If one has the correct insignia, one can make it whatever one wants.

Chip

Strictly speaking if put together, then it of course is not a cap actually used by a Wehrwolf member, but it is still a cap that could have been used by a Wehrwolf member...all depends on what the owner plans to do with the cap and if he was to sell it, then how it would advertise it I guess...Cheers, Torsten.

[Robin Lumsden]

It IS a put together cap.

An original 1917-pattern einheitsmuetze with one of the cockades replaced by an original TK.

That's what the Wehrwolf men did themselves in the 1920s.

The chances of picking up an untouched Wehrwolf cap are about nil.

This is the nearest I'll get to it and I'm happy with it as a representative example.

It's not going to be sold, so where is the harm?

Probably 80%+ of even bog-standard caps and tunics are also put-togethers.

Remember - Nazi badges were ordered stripped off in 1945.

[Robin Lumsden]

Oh.......I forgot to say.

When your hair, teeth and time are fast disappearing, you have to make do with the best you can.

It's OK for you young optimistic guys.

I'm a pessimist........i.e. an optimist with experience.

Sometimes you have to compromise in your search for a 'complete' collection.

Take it from one who knows.

[Jack Dutton-Roberts]

Nice car, Robin! Love that reg plate

Just ignore all these folk who criticise you for doing that, as they are probably the same people who snap up all these "originally badged" SS/Panzer etc uniforms from big dealers who have stitched the badges on themselves. They then come onto the forum thinking that they are original to the uniform just because it was from Mr so and so, even though he updates his site with hundreds of similar examples every week. God I can rant.

If there's no chance of every obtaining a real one, what's the harm as long as people know? It's hardly "bad". "Bad" would be now sticking it back on eBay and saying it was "originally badged".

Jack.

[torstenbel]

It IS a put together cap.

An original 1917-pattern einheitsmuetze with one of the cockades replaced by an original TK.

That's what the Wehrwolf men did themselves in the 1920s.

that is what I was trying to say with my previous post...and I most certainly do not have a problem with your cap...but I would have problem if someone else did this and then offered it for sale as an all original and complete item. Cheers, Torsten.

[Brian Calkins]

Fake or not

Robin,
Nice job standing tall before the man and putting this issue to bed. It is certainly your own business what you do with the cap and as long as it does not go back on the market, or is published that way, no one should really take issue.

You are correct of course, a majority of uniform items have been fixed up in one way or another.

While I am certainly no fan of altered objects (since I might end up buying one), let's keep in mind that 99 percent of the people in the world don't give a crap about any of this militaria stuff. In the big scheme of life, it's just not that important.

While I believe we all do bare a responsibility to preserve these historical objects for the next owners, lets all remember that this is a damned expensive hobby and what's the point in doing it if we don't enjoy it on a daily basis.

Again Robin, thanks for giving us the straight info on the cap and keep searching for that untouched piece. After all, the hunt is half the fun!!

[ccj]

I really think the statement "That's what the Wehrwolf men did themselves in the 1920s" says it all. WHO WOULD KNOW? It's a cap that was either altered by the 1st owner, the last owner, or someone in between!

I like the skull!

[Jeffrey Magut]

The irony of this development is not lost on me. Mr. Lumsden is the author of the landmark book "Detecting the Fakes". How can we prospective buyers of such headgear protect ourselves from buying a hat which appears to be an authentic item, but was assembled in 2006? Common Prussian items can become Lubeck and Saxon ones with the switch of a cockade.

Other than checking behind the badge to see imprints or fading on the cloth, how could your determine authenticity? Any thoughts?

[Robin Lumsden]

The irony of this development is not lost on me. Mr. Lumsden is the author of the landmark book "Detecting the Fakes". How can we prospective buyers of such headgear protect ourselves from buying a hat which appears to be an authentic item, but was assembled in 2006? Common Prussian items can become Lubeck and Saxon ones with the switch of a cockade.

Other than checking behind the badge to see imprints or fading on the cloth, how could your determine authenticity? Any thoughts?

Jeffrey.
That is a perennial and insoluble problem. No-one can know for sure. I'm confident that 80%+ of almost everything on the market these days has been 'improved' at some point. Even adding a replacement ribbon to an EK 'alters' it in some way.
So far as the cap in this thread is concerned, it's not being sold, so the problem doesn't arise.

[Erich Wahl]

It's one thing to restore a cap to its original condition but to alter one to turn it into something else is simply destruction of a historical item no matter how much you rationalize it.

That being said it is a nice looking cap.

Cheers,
Erich

[Erich Wahl]

So far as the cap in this thread is concerned, it's not being sold, so the problem doesn't arise.

The problem may arise in the future unless you plan to have the cap buried with you.

A possible scenario: This untouched Wehrwolf cap is from the late Robin Lumsden's collection!

Cheers,
Erich

[Robin Lumsden]

The problem may arise in the future unless you plan to have the cap buried with you.

A possible scenario: This untouched Wehrwolf cap is from the late Robin Lumsden's collection!

Cheers,
Erich

Holy sh*t. I didn't think of that!