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**Tony & Kaiser** · 01-02-2006, 02:22 PM

Hi Dave. Go here>> http://www.kaisersbunker.com/gtp/

Look at the bottom three Feldgrau ones. Its pretty basic I know, but it migt be handy.

**Dave Kane** · 01-02-2006, 03:10 PM

Thankyou Tony & Kaiser a great site and easy to follow

I still can't narrow the tunic down though....I believe it pre dates WWI but by how long!

**RoyA** · 01-02-2006, 04:12 PM

Hi Dave,
That style of tunic was issued from 1910 thru 1915.
R

**Dave Kane** · 01-02-2006, 04:20 PM

Thanks Roy!

**Daniel Murphy** · 01-02-2006, 04:49 PM

Dave,
That uniform is a Prussian 1907/10 field grey tunic. The designation means designed in 1907 for troop trials and modified in 1910 for issue to the entire army. This particular uniform is piped in black on the collar and cuffs and is piped red on the front and back. It was issued to artillery, engineers, aviation, and all technical troops. If it were engineers, the shoulder strap would be black, if field Artillery he would have a open frame mounted buckle. Therefore, I would say it is foot (Heavy) artillery. The headgear is a common soldiers muetze with a black band and red piping to match the uniform. Even though new uniforms and modifications were introduced in 1914 and 1915, these early unifroms continued to be used in ever decreqsing numbers through 1918. I would estimate this photo was taken in 1915-1916. The uniform shows normal wear from service in the field, but not extensive wear like a later photo would.
Dan Murphy

**Dave Kane** · 01-02-2006, 05:25 PM

Thanks very much Dan!

**Tony & Kaiser** · 01-02-2006, 06:25 PM

Actually, the straps for the Pionier were not all black until 1915. For the M10 they were grey with red piping and red numbers. It is very hard to tell the unit in most cases unless you can see clearly the strap, as for the M10 almost universally the straps were grey with colored piping and numbers and no-one can accurately judge the color of the straps or piping due to the orthochromatic film used in the period. Same for the cap band. Is that red, or blue, or green, or .........? Most Technical troops (which included aviation) carried Litzen of some sort, and except for Garde units, Train, J******228;ger, Pionier, Medical, Dragoon, Filed and Foot Artillery and others did not. The Foot troops buckle seems to remove Train, Field Artillerie and Dragoons from the list but I would not rule out the others. Without seeing that strap, it is an educated guess.

**Dave Kane** · 01-02-2006, 06:50 PM

Thanks for all of the help guys!

I've looked at dozens of period photos and note that the cuffs have 2-3 buttons STACKED above one another. This one however has them ALONGSIDE.

Does this indicate a time period?

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**Chip M** · 01-03-2006, 12:28 AM

Dave Kane,

Cuffs can indicate a period of use, but in this case, where the soldier is wearing the early pattern cuff, it could be from any time later in the war, but most likely, some time during or after 1915.

The German army wore several styles of cuffs. The one in your picture is called the Swedish patten and, as noted in the other posts, they were worn by a number of units, the most commonly seen in photos being those of the technical branch or field artillery. The foot artillery did not wear the Swedish cuff, with the exception of the Garde regiment. The cuff that you are referring to (three vertical buttons) is the Brandenburg cuff and it was predominently worn by the infantry.

The only other comment I might make is that the shoulder strap appears to be the 1910/15 variety, with no piping and stitched directly on the tunic at the shoulder seam.

Chip

**Tony & Kaiser** · 01-03-2006, 08:20 AM

Originally posted by Chip M

// The foot artillery did not wear the Swedish cuff//

How did I miss that?

Duh. I even have a few Fußartillery Waffenrocks here. The Brandenburg cuff is what makes them unique!

**Dave Mosher** · 01-03-2006, 09:54 AM

Dave

To really confuse you, you mentioned seeing 2-3 buttons set vetically on the cuffs. Chip detailed the use of the brandenburg cuff with an extra vetical cloth panel and three vertical buttons on it. There is one other way of buttons set vertically on german tunics. Specifically for Saxon line infantry, foot artillery, train, jager, schutzen and pioneers two buttons "stacked" on a swedish-style cuff were worn; one button on the cuff and one button directly above cuff.

Dave

Originally posted by Dave Kane

Thanks for all of the help guys!

I've looked at dozens of period photos and note that the cuffs have 2-3 buttons STACKED above one another. This one however has them ALONGSIDE.

Does this indicate a time period?

**Dave Kane** · 01-03-2006, 12:03 PM

Thanks everyone!!

1910 to 1915 fits nicely in to the time frame I was chasing.

**Daniel Murphy** · 01-03-2006, 04:41 PM

How did I miss that?

Duh.

Tony,
Don't feel bad. I have a nice minty Bavarian Foot Artillery majors field grey uniform (seconded to aviation). But I thought it was a Bavarian thing. An Aviation major is rare in the German army so perhaps he was a division or corps aviation liason officer.
Dan Murphy

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