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    #1

    garde du corps helmet

    He guys! I have an opportunity to acquire this, but I really need to know what im looking at specifically to make a proper offer. I don't specialize in these and am curious exactly what type of Garde du Corps Helmet this is. What's the diff between and officers and an enlisted mans? It has a manufacture mark on it, no liner, a few scales missing and looks like some repairs. Any concerns on originality? Also, whats a fair retail for a piece like this? Sorry the pics suck, these were the best the lady was able to get me.

    Thanks for the help!
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    #2
    Nice garde du corps model 1867.
    100% original.

    Comment

      #3
      In this condition, where do we price it +/-?

      Comment

        #4
        A very rare and desirable helmet. In very good condition with all original components many thousands of dollars. In this condition maybe a starting point of $2500.00 if all original. The pictures are extremely poor making its near impossible to give you an estimate of value. What is he asking for it?

        Chuck

        Comment

          #5
          These are highly sought after helmets, but I would not say they are rare; a quick internet search will find multiple examples for sale. Two regiments wore the same helmet, the GdC and the Garde Kurassiers.
          This is an officer's version, but I'm not crazy about the Garde Star; it appears to be of poor quality, unless it's the less than clear photos.
          The interior is missing of course, a major issue, IMHO.
          Helmut Weitze, not a dealer with many bargains, has an officer's version prced at 17,500 euros.
          If this is a authentic helmet, it would be worth much less, given it's condition; perhaps $2000-3000?

          Bob Shoaf

          Comment

            #6
            Ok, I was thinking 3k on the low end, so my instincts were not off. If I can lock down the deal, there is some decent meat on the bone to turn a profit. I agree about the pictures. Some sellers (who aren't also collectors) are just not technologically skilled enough to make these types of transactions a slam dunk.
            Thanks for your help guys, it's super appreciated!

            Comment

              #7
              Not an officer's helmet, but a nice 1867 pattern EM's helmet. I'd say work 3K.

              Comment

                #8
                1867 pattern EM's helmet
                Yes, I agree.

                Let's break this helmet down a bit, and point out some of the problems it has:

                1.) The chinscale attachment "rosettes" are not correct for an 1867 model helmet. The chin scales should be mounted with screws and rosettes that have a hole in the center of them for the screw to pass through.

                2.) Good luck finding loose, individual Tombac chin scale segments to replace the missing ones, and then finding the correct sizes to fill in the missing gaps. Not impossible, but it may take years to find correct ones. I can't quite tell from the pics if the chin scale set is Brass or if it is Tombac. If they're not Tombac, that's a bad sign, as they should be Tombac. And if they're Brass, it's almost impossible to find the correct set of Tombac scales for the helmet.

                3.) Kokarde is not the old style kokarde that should be on the helmet.

                4.) The enlisted front plate is dinged up quite a bit on the ends/points of the star, from what I can see from the photos provided. Hopefully the silver star burst is original, and not a copy. I'm not impressed with the quality of the detail on the silver star from what I've seen from the photos provided. Especially the motto lettering, from viewing the photos.

                5.) Silver edge trim on the rear visor has a clear break on it. Repairable, but it will always be repaired.

                6.) Eagle has some problems with the seams. Hopefully the eagle is indeed original, and not a galvano copy. The photos are not good enough to make a decent assessment on the condition of the eagle, and whether it is original or not, in my opinion. Sorry, I realize that's all you have for photos of the helmet.

                7.) As Bob Shoaf pointed out, the missing liner deducts significantly from the value of the piece. I once had a beautiful officer version with the calfskin sweatband absent, and the silk liner absent, and it hurt the value of the helmet significantly.

                If there's anyone here who truly knows the in's and out's of these various GdC/GK helmets, it's Bob. He's the "go-to" man for knowledge and advice on them.

                Best Regards,

                Alan

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by darekm View Post
                  Not an officer's helmet, but a nice 1867 pattern EM's helmet. I'd say work 3K.
                  I have always thought the the second edge above the peak is indicative of an officer's helmet, although the Garde Star is not officer quality.
                  One can always learn, and I try to do so.

                  Bob Shoaf

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by ww1czechlegion View Post
                    Yes, I agree.

                    Let's break this helmet down a bit, and point out some of the problems it has:

                    1.) The chinscale attachment "rosettes" are not correct for an 1867 model helmet. The chin scales should be mounted with screws and rosettes that have a hole in the center of them for the screw to pass through.

                    2.) Good luck finding loose, individual Tombac chin scale segments to replace the missing ones, and then finding the correct sizes to fill in the missing gaps. Not impossible, but it may take years to find correct ones. I can't quite tell from the pics if the chin scale set is Brass or if it is Tombac. If they're not Tombac, that's a bad sign, as they should be Tombac. And if they're Brass, it's almost impossible to find the correct set of Tombac scales for the helmet.

                    3.) Kokarde is not the old style kokarde that should be on the helmet.

                    4.) The enlisted front plate is dinged up quite a bit on the ends/points of the star, from what I can see from the photos provided. Hopefully the silver star burst is original, and not a copy. I'm not impressed with the quality of the detail on the silver star from what I've seen from the photos provided. Especially the motto lettering, from viewing the photos.

                    5.) Silver edge trim on the rear visor has a clear break on it. Repairable, but it will always be repaired.

                    6.) Eagle has some problems with the seams. Hopefully the eagle is indeed original, and not a galvano copy. The photos are not good enough to make a decent assessment on the condition of the eagle, and whether it is original or not, in my opinion. Sorry, I realize that's all you have for photos of the helmet.

                    7.) As Bob Shoaf pointed out, the missing liner deducts significantly from the value of the piece. I once had a beautiful officer version with the calfskin sweatband absent, and the silk liner absent, and it hurt the value of the helmet significantly.

                    If there's anyone here who truly knows the in's and out's of these various GdC/GK helmets, it's Bob. He's the "go-to" man for knowledge and advice on them.

                    Best Regards,

                    Alan

                    Thanks Alan, I did notice the different style rosettes you are speaking of on other helmets. I did not know if it was just a known variant or date specific style. From what you have pointed out though, it seems clear that this was some type of repair job. Maybe the shell was acquired and over a certain span of time items were added to the shell to complete it. This makes me suspect of the other parts as well. This may indeed be a full "parts helmet" which I would imagine puts it down in the 2k range. I may try to convince the seller to send it to me for further study.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      plate

                      Hi, on last photo shown at 11 o clock on the tomback body is that an extra hole that has been plugged ? one Kurassier regiment had a tomback shell with white metal eagle plate

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by ww1czechlegion View Post
                        Yes, I agree.

                        Let's break this helmet down a bit, and point out some of the problems it has:

                        1.) The chinscale attachment "rosettes" are not correct for an 1867 model helmet. The chin scales should be mounted with screws and rosettes that have a hole in the center of them for the screw to pass through.

                        2.) Good luck finding loose, individual Tombac chin scale segments to replace the missing ones, and then finding the correct sizes to fill in the missing gaps. Not impossible, but it may take years to find correct ones. I can't quite tell from the pics if the chin scale set is Brass or if it is Tombac. If they're not Tombac, that's a bad sign, as they should be Tombac. And if they're Brass, it's almost impossible to find the correct set of Tombac scales for the helmet.

                        3.) Kokarde is not the old style kokarde that should be on the helmet.

                        4.) The enlisted front plate is dinged up quite a bit on the ends/points of the star, from what I can see from the photos provided. Hopefully the silver star burst is original, and not a copy. I'm not impressed with the quality of the detail on the silver star from what I've seen from the photos provided. Especially the motto lettering, from viewing the photos.

                        5.) Silver edge trim on the rear visor has a clear break on it. Repairable, but it will always be repaired.

                        6.) Eagle has some problems with the seams. Hopefully the eagle is indeed original, and not a galvano copy. The photos are not good enough to make a decent assessment on the condition of the eagle, and whether it is original or not, in my opinion. Sorry, I realize that's all you have for photos of the helmet.

                        7.) As Bob Shoaf pointed out, the missing liner deducts significantly from the value of the piece. I once had a beautiful officer version with the calfskin sweatband absent, and the silk liner absent, and it hurt the value of the helmet significantly.

                        If there's anyone here who truly knows the in's and out's of these various GdC/GK helmets, it's Bob. He's the "go-to" man for knowledge and advice on them.

                        Best Regards,

                        Alan



                        Thanks Alan!! As always an honest reply.

                        Jerry

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by soldbuch View Post
                          Hi, on last photo shown at 11 o clock on the tomback body is that an extra hole that has been plugged ? one Kurassier regiment had a tomback shell with white metal eagle plate
                          I think thats just glare.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Beside the plate at 11 o clock you can see a copper plug with old dried polish in it, not the reflection a few inches from it.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              You can see it in the last two pictures, closer to the 10 o'clock position under the tip of one of the points on the star.

                              Chuck

                              Comment

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