EK II 1870 S&L and 800 Marked 1870?

[Green]

I found this cross and at first sight it looks like a S&L 1870 made around 1900. A so called "Spangenstuck". The small ring its marked 800 and the frame lug is also different. IMO opinion the core also.
What do you think about this cross?

S&L 1870 800 Obverse.jpg

S&L 1870 800 Reverse.jpg

EK II 1870 St & L (11).jpg

EKII 1870 800.jpg

[VtwinVince]

Certainly looks like a classic Jubilee cross, although I've never seen one marked 800.

[Green]

Certainly looks like a classic Jubilee cross, although I've never seen one marked 800.

I also have never seen a marked 800 one. Thanks for your reaction

So far you are the only one who responds. That used to be different, now hardly anyone reacts anymore....80 viewers and one response

[Hagrid]

My first reaction was:
"I have no idea!"
(maybe the other 78 onlookers thought the same )
After your complaint I took a closer look and it seems to me that the striking is soft: the edges of the numbers, parts of the crown, the "F" - no good quality, looks like cast or - magnetic core given - blurred by paint, maybe.
A little silver touch added to pimp a suspicious core - if Frankenstein get´s its credits, too...
I don´t like it and I would not spent too much money for this one (-if any at all !)
Just my 2 cents.
Regards
Hagrid

[Green]

My first reaction was:
"I have no idea!"
(maybe the other 78 onlookers thought the same )
After your complaint I took a closer look and it seems to me that the striking is soft: the edges of the numbers, parts of the crown, the "F" - no good quality, looks like cast or - magnetic core given - blurred by paint, maybe.
A little silver touch added to pimp a suspicious core - if Frankenstein get´s its credits, too...
I don´t like it and I would not spent too much money for this one (-if any at all !)
Just my 2 cents.
Regards
Hagrid

I,am sorry but this is IMO a good cross from the period around 1900. The core is not painted....it is a cast iron core. You are right about bad quality of the core., but the cores of these type of crosses (Medalbar/Jubilee pieces) are known by there lack of details. Just want to hear opinions about the differance between the so called S&L pieces.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...medalbar+piece

[VtwinVince]

I agree, this is not your typical fake. Having owned a few Jubilee crosses, I wouldn't have a problem with this one. The quality is typical for these pieces. We need Trevor to chime in on this one.....

[gregM]

I would have responded but I have no experience with these S/L 1870s.
I have never liked them and always felt that given the very poor quality
(compared to period A-type crosses) that they were fake. However I have been
made to concede that they are indeed original crosses and not modern fakes.

I have not studied these enough to know what is considered original or not
about these crosses.

[Green]

Thanks for your responses

S&L showed this type of cross in his catalog. There were certainly several makers who make this low end type of crosses. You do not see them often and we know little of these crosses. The S&L crosses are known and good to judge on authenticity. From this cross I find no other examples to compaire, so that is the reason I showed the cross here. Also knowing it´s difficult to judge an unknown cross.

The patina, the core , the frame and the wear does not give me any red flags. IMO is this an authentic zweitstück or medalbar piece, an inexpensive copy probably from around 1900.

S&L-cat.jpg

Eisernes Kreuz 1870.jpg

[VtwinVince]

These things are period, but you rarely find them mounted on medal bars.

[johnkyens]

Thanks for your responses

S&L showed this type of cross in his catalog. There were certainly several makers who make this low end type of crosses. You do not see them often and we know little of these crosses. The S&L crosses are known and good to judge on authenticity. From this cross I find no other examples to compaire, so that is the reason I showed the cross here. Also knowing it´s difficult to judge an unknown cross.

The patina, the core , the frame and the wear does not give me any red flags. IMO is this an authentic zweitstück or medalbar piece, an inexpensive copy probably from around 1900.

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Thanks for sharing these interesting pages !

[Green]

These things are period, but you rarely find them mounted on medal bars.

Yes, you are right. IMO a lot of medal bars have been taken apart. Mostly because of the bad condition of the ribbons. Also, not long ago, medalsbars were valued based on the value of the medals, € 25 extra money was added as a so called Medalbar money. You received more money if you sold the medals separately.

[Green]

Thanks for sharing these interesting pages !

You're welcome