ID of a Feldspange

[Klaus O.]

Dear fellow collectors:

I am interested to know if someone could find out who has worn the Feldspange here below depicted.

EK 2. Kl., Hausorden v. Hohenzollern mit X, DA, Kolonial-Denkmünze mit Gefechtsspange "Deutsch-Ostafrika 1905-07, Zentenarmedaille, Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz, Österreich MVK mit KD, Türkei Liakatmedaille.

Here's a list of officers' list who participated the campaign of Deutsch-Ostafrika (taken from the website medal.net created by Mr. Andreas M. Schulze Ising, article by Mr. Markus Bodeux):

Altvater Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, bis 03/06
Anschütz Leutnant zur See SEEADLER, ab 03/06
Asmussen Leutnant zur See THETIS, ab 03/06 bis 05/06
Bachmann Kapitänleutnant SEEADLER, 1. Offizier
Back Korvettenkapitän BUSSARD, Kommandant bis 20.10.05
Baer, Erich Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Bertram Marineoberzahlmeister SEEADLER, bis 03/06
Beuck Marineoberingenieur THETIS, bis 10/05
Bindseil Oberleutnant zur See THETIS, ab 03/06 bis 05/06
Breuer Marineingenieur SEEADLER, bis 03/06
Darmer Kapitänleutnant THETIS, Navigationsoffizier bis 03/06
Deutz, Dr. Marineoberassistenzarzt Marineinfanteriedetachement
Dienst Marineingenieur SEEADLER, ab 03/06
Dollmann, Curt Leutnant zur See THETIS, bis 03/06
Eberhard Leutnant zur See BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Engelbrecht Leutnant Marineinfanteriedetachement
Fircks, Freiherr von Leutnant zur See THETIS bis 03/06
Gaehde Oberleutnant zur See THETIS, bis 03/06
Gelbke Marineoberzahlmeister BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Glatzel Fregattenkapitän 1905 THETIS, Kommandant bis 05/06
Goedel Leutnant zur See BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Heinsohn Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Hertzer Oberleutnant zur See THETIS, Navigationsoffizier 03 bis 05/06
Hilmers Kapitänleutnant BUSSARD, 1. Offizier ab 03/06
Hinsch Oberleutnant zur See SEEADLER, bis 03/06
Ihssen Leutnant zur See SEEADLER, ab 03/06
Jastrzembski, Kurt von Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, bis 03/06
Kleyenstüber Oberleutnant zur See Maschinengewehrdetachement
Koehler, Walter Leutnant zur See THETIS, bis 03/06
Kophamel Oberleutnant zur See THETIS, bis 05/06
Korndorff Marineoberzahlmeister THETIS
Kretschmar Oberleutnant zur See SEEADLER
Lenzner Leutnant zur See SEEADLER
Liebe Marineoberzahlmeister BUSSARD, bis 03/06+E121
Marks, Arnold Korvettenkapitän BUSSARD, Kdt. ab 20.10.05 bis 16.11.06
Mende Marinestabsarzt SEEADLER
Milczewski, von Leutnant Marineinfanteriedetachement
Mohr, Dr. Marinestabsarzt BUSSARD
Müller Korvettenkapitän SEEADLER, Kommandant ab 03/06
Nicolai Marineoberingenieur THETIS, ab 10/05 bis 05/06
Nobis Kapitänleutnant BUSSARD, 1. Offizier bis 03/06
Orb Leutnant zur See THETIS, ab 03/06 bis 05/06
Paasche Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, bis 03/06
Prause Oberleutnant zur See THETIS bis 03/06
Puttsarcken Korvettenkapitän SEEADLER, Kommandant bis 03/06
Röder von Dierksburg, Freiherr von Oberleutnant zur See THETIS, ab 03/06 bis 05/06
Schäfer Marineoberzahlmeister SEEADLER
Schatzmann Marineingenieur THETIS, bis 05/06
Scheeren Marineoberingenieur BUSSARD, ab 03/06
Schlichting, von Hauptmann Marineinfanteriedetachement
Schröder, Erich Leutnant zur See BUSSARD
Schumacher Oberleutnant zur See SEEADLER, ab 03/06
Sommerfeldt Oberleutnant zur See SEEADLER, bis 03/06
Stengel, Freiherr von* Leutnant Marineinfanteriedetachement
Stieler von Heydekampf Oberleutnant Marineinfanteriedetachement
Stutz Marineoberzahlmeister THETIS
Verth, Dr. zur Marinestabsarzt THETIS, ab 10/05
Wachtel Oberleutnant zur See Maschinengewehrdetachement ab
Wahl Marineingenieur BUSSARD, bis 03/06
Weber, Dr. Marinestabsarzt THETIS, bis 10/05
Wernecke Oberleutnant zur See BUSSARD, bis 03/06
Werner Korvettenkapitän BUSSARD, Kdt. ab 16.11.06
Wünsche Leutnant zur See THETIS, ab 03/06 bis 05/06
Wurmbach Kapitänleutnant THEITS, 1. Offizier bis 05/06

* Leutnant Heinrich Freiherr von Stengel ist am 4. Februar 1906 in Folge Krankheit in Dar-Es-Salaam verstorben.

Thank you in advance for your interest in this matter!

Ciao,

Claudio Ortelli

[Rick Research]

Claudio--

that is a list of NAVAL officers who participated, NOT including the Schutztruppen officers stationed in East Africa.

The second ribbon is the Prussian Crown Order (undoubtedly 4th Class) with swords on the war ribbon, not the WW1 HHOX. Note that the crown is in the MIDDLE of the swords, not on top of them.

Whenever you see a "combatant" ribbon on a Prussian colonial Order with swords in almost every single case (there were weird exceptions) you can immediately exclude "non-combatant" personnel like doctors and paymasters, who got those awards then on the "white-black" ribbon.

I very much doubt that a naval officer had this bar, since despite pre-1897 service time, there is no peacetime German Order like a Crown or Red Eagle. If I can ID this officer-- which will only be possible with a post-WW1 career or if he WAS a naval officer-- I'll let you know by PM since I assume this is on the Kube auction and do not wish to provide free research to non Forums members-- especially to be used to outbid you! Rick

[Klaus O.]

Dear Rick,

Thank you very much of your reply. Yes, it is on Kube's catalogue and I would like to bid on it. I was just curious. As you can see, Kube made a mistake in the description of the ribbon bar and I didn't even noticed that. Thank you for pointing it out to me. As a matter of fact I do not have a list of Schutztruppen officers. I thought that it wouldn't have been to complicated to find out the name of the ribbon bar's owner, since he also has the Hanseatisches Kreuz of Hamburg and two foreign awards. I do not know if you on your reference material these foreign awards are listed as well.

I was wondering that it would be interesting to put on a CD or on computer file all the data of reference listing on German officers in order to give a name to such feldspangen just by hitting a search engine button. Wouldn't be nice? The data could contain all officers from pre-1900 until 1945. Maybe I am only dreaming, but I am quite sure that there is enough data to build up quite a complete archive. That would be cool!!!

Rick, if you have the time and patience I would really appreciate if you could find him. I really hope not to steal you any precious time. I must say that I learned a lot from your, Stogieman's and the other guys' postings. I would like to thank you all!!!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Rick Research]

Oops-- I didn't note before-- it isn't the Hamburg Hanseatic Cross ribbon either-- it's the much rarer Lübeck one. (Yeesh! I wonder what the rest of the "descriptions" are like, especially if items aren't pictured!!??)

I've been through the 64 "naval" (including Marines) names above (the guy who died in 1906 obviously wasn't around in WW1)-- I can ABSOLUTELY EXCLUDE all but

von Milczewski
Nobis
Freiherr von Stengel
and
Stieler von Heydekampf

the first and last have "issues" with original patent dates and are probably going to be excludable, Nobis--who retired before the war and was recalled for a desk job highly unlikely to have had this combination is also unlikely, and I believe Freiherr von Stengel was a Bavarian and so not him EITHER, though without a first name can't be sure. The most likely "suspect"'s Bavarian and "Reichs" Leutnant Patent month/day dates don't match (same year), but can't imagine who else it could be.

Now, out of the Schutztruppen personnel 1905-1907: that colony's officer corps was fairly stable, but of course there is NO way to tell who got a specific bar and who didn't. I can reduce them on first pass to 15 officers and 5 doctors, who are all who remain as not being excluded so far.

Of these 20, I have so far only found five who definitely remained in service long enough for the XXV Years Service Cross-- and three of them were still in German East Africa when the war started-- so no way the Lübeck, Austro-Hungarian, and Turkish awards went to THEM. Three more retired before the war and were recalled-- unlikely to have had a long service cross, and the rest remain on the multiples of that name to look up list. None appear to have made it into Reichswehr service, which means after all this, the "suspects" may still be down to only half a dozen or so. Rick

[Klaus O.]

Thank you Rick for your competent and quick reply...

Man! You're completely right, saying that Kube's description of the Feldspange is quite "poor"... Some of there medals pictured on the catalogue do not correspond with the images. Maybe they should be more careful, considering the high starting prices. I didn't even checked the description... mmmhhh... I should be more careful, too!

Ciao,

Claudio