Pilot Badge on E-stand

[Forssmann]

Curious on opinions for this badge
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru....php?t=1017638

[phild]

It is original and IMO less encountered than the plated brass type or the alpaca type. I think that it probably is wartime (WWI) but I disagree with the inference that these were “the” award type or more worn for regular wear than the 800 silver multi piece versions. IMO these steel types would be very late badges made the last year of the war if not the last months. I see rusted examples in poor condition but I’ve yet to see in person or in collector dealer photos any example of a cliche type badge in any material that truly showed hard wear and tear from years of field wear. I have seen many silver badges that showed real wear, some extensive, and one well vetted as a combat downing recovery.

There has been a lot a factually incorrect information spoken and written about how silver flight badges were too expensive for award items or wartime restrictions on using silver. Nevertheless we see silver being standard in all classes of award iron crosses until nearly the end of the war and the same with honor pokels and other awards of less standing than a flight qualification badge, which were fairly “big deals”.

I should add that I think the price is very good on that one.

[Ferg 1]

For what it’s worth ,I have plenty of well worn cliche type badges that show extensive wear and use. It stands to reason that a silver example is going to be subject to more polishing than an iron or brass plated type. As for the honour goblets ,I thought it was common knowledge that the silver supplies for these ran out fairly quickly after institution .
Ferg

[Ferg 1]

Also steel is much harder than silver and would take more than four or five years to show any surface wear .
Ferg

[phild]

My recollection is that the plated goblets start appearing in later 1917 or 1918, granted that is not long after they were introduced but the bigger point is that silver was being used well into 1917 for those awards as it was of course for Iron crosses.
Again, the context is the claim that silver would not have been used in wartime award flight badges due to scarcity does not seem to have merit except during the last year or so.

As for cliche type badges, I have seen many with major finish wear as it polishes off easily. I have not seen any or at least many with heavy metal wear to high details on wreath or crown. I realize that the metals used in those is a bit harder than silver but brass and alpaca not that much harder.
I am not disputing that you may have encountered this wear however as you have probably examined more than I.
I have many reasons for believing that the silver versions were the award pieces, at least into or through 1917, but I have no proof that they were. I will say that by 1915 copper and nickel was being restricted more than for awards and insignia. I tend to think if 5000 pilot awards were struck from mild steel they would be much more prevalent today.

[Ferg 1]

I agree that the silver pieces were the awarded badges, that seems obvious to me too.

[VtwinVince]

My uncle got his goblet in January, 1918 and it is the plated steel version. Curiously, his pilot badge, also awarded around the same time, is an 800 silver Juncker piece. Would people like to comment on the officer's shoulder boards from the same seller? I personally don't care for the devices.

[Forssmann]

Thanks for the opinions

[phild]

I agree that the silver pieces were the awarded badges, that seems obvious to me too.

Ferg 1
You had me going for while!😑


Interesting to hear on the goblet and pilot badge. I think that other accounts are there to show that 800 silver badges were still being “awarded” in 1918 maybe still being made are maybe made in 1917. Air Gunner badges are known in Juncker 800 form and it was not instituted until 1918

I do think that the cliche style are just as real and valid as a WWI flight badge as the silver versions. They may well have been awarded and may well have been optional wear badges if the owner desired.

One theme that runs from PLM to wound badges and imperial to 3rd Reich is the constant quest to make attractive quality LIGHT weight awards.

[Brian S]

Ferg 1


One theme that runs from PLM to wound badges and imperial to 3rd Reich is the constant quest to make attractive quality LIGHT weight awards.

Yes, hence beautiful hollow PlM's. Lightweight.