Another BMVO on Ebay - yes or no?

[Mike Huxley]

Hi guys, Iv'e just noticed this BMVO 3rd Class with Swords, on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...item=722531186 What's your opinions on this item - worth a bid or not?

I've been after one of these or a 4th class for a while, but without success.

Don't suppose anybody knows where I can get hold of a case for a Prussian Order of The Crown, Fourth Class, with Swords, from do they. Any help would be appreciated.

[stogieman]

I say Nay!

Hi Mike, I have serious misgivings on this cross. Looks too 'new" to me. There have been quite a few bmvo's and hho's showing up lately, that basicly look and feel brand spanking new. One German dealer markets them on eBay as "Model 1957" I didn't realize that in 1957, any surviving Imperial-era veterans were required to change their medals, decorations and orders...... to something more politically acceptable?? Hmmmmmmm.

[Dave Danner]

Judging by the richness of the enamel and the thickness of the edge on the lower reverse arm, it's a Gebrüder Hemmerle piece. The 4th class I have is marked G.H. 950 on the lower arm and G.H. 900 on the swords. Nothing jumps out to me as being wrong with this one, but I am far from an expert on these.

Dave

[stogieman]

Okay, then how about this:

He lives in Germany, in the heart of Bavaria.
Every MAJOR serious Bavarian collector, in Germany, would be killing each other for it.
Every major Bavarian collector, in Bavaria, would pay 800-EURO MINIMUM for this cross.
But he has graciously chosen to sell the cross in America, Land of the Free, Home of the Brave, shelter to people who still believe "if only", for a fraction of it's worth in his own country.
Such a stunning example of sacrifice for his fellow man moves me.

[Eric Stahlhut]

hmmm.

This guy is branching out! To eBay.uk. I mean! He has always had a healthy amount of "iffy" items for sale at rock-bottom prices. With no return policy, last time I asked. Bottom line is this: the lower-end items that he sells are mostly legit, and then he has stuff like this for sale....moremad

[JensF.]

I really like that cross. New problems with it and the broad upper crossarm on the back is Ok too.

[Klaus O.]

The MVO 3. Kl. is really rare. I just have seen once or twice being offered by auction's houses in Germany every year. For example Hermann Historica is listing on his catalogue one MVO 3. Kl. mit X (silber verg. mit kleinen Emailchips), starting price EUR 350.-. I guess that it will be sold for much more.

Although the cross on Ebay looks good I have quite a spontaneous question: why is he trying to sell it on Ebay when German collectors of Bavarian collectible would kill eachother to get such a cross? I do know that Bavaria military collectibles, especially WWI and MV orders are considered quite desirable in Germany.

Ciao,

Claudio

[Dave Danner]

In Hermann Historica's 41st auction, a silver/gold (not gilt) Gebrüder Hemmerle MVO3X went for DM4.000 on an opening bid of DM2.500. A silver gilt Jakob Leser one went for DM1.900 (opening bid DM750). A silver gilt Gebrüder Hemmerle MVO3 with Crown and Swords went from DM 1.250 to DM2.800, so the opening bid isn't all that far from the ballpark.

However, one thing stands out, and maybe someone with greater expertise or access to references has more information. On all the Gebrüder Hemmerle's I see on HH (and mine too), the crown on the cypher is solid, not openwork like a Jakob Leser. The one on eBay, which appears to be a GH by the extra wide lower cross arm edge, has an openwork crown.

Any thoughts?

Dave

[Klaus O.]

Dave,

I never noticed that detail about the "open crown", but you're right! I checked all my MVOs and HH's MVOs on their last auction and I can only confirm that the MVOs made by Gebrüder Hemmerle all have a solid crown (without spaces between the crown itself). Mmmhh... I am learning every day something new!

Ciao,

Claudio

[Mike Huxley]

Thanks - - - you've all confirmed my doubts about this piece, it just looks so new, as if it was made yesterday!! I think Rick and Claudio have hit the nail on the head when they ask "Why sell it on Ebay", and with no reserve.

It just proves the worth of joining the forum

[JensF.]

Could this be a fake or just a 57er or 30s made medal?

[Daniel Krause]

The thick edge on the lower arm is a typical sign for a 4th class. This cannot be a real 3rd class. Maybe somebody gilt this cross to "bump it up" and make some more money.
Just my 2 cent.

Best regards

Daniel