1914 Petz & Lorenz EK2 - do they exist????

[lainesnook]

Hello All,

Did P&L make a 1914 EK2????

If yes - do they turn up for sale often?...and what sort of price?

Please let me know.

Laine

[Dansson]

Yes, they exist.
You'll have a tough time to get your hands on one.
Regarding price, I haven't got any other answer than this; if identified by the seller, much more than the standard EK2 price.

[lainesnook]

Yes, they exist.
You'll have a tough time to get your hands on one.
Regarding price, I haven't got any other answer than this; if identified by the seller, much more than the standard EK2 price.

Thank you for the information.

Can you tell me if it is on the 1939 design like their 1914 EK1's?

Also - as all of their 1914 EK1's are on the 1939 design, can I assume that they didn't make EK's prior to 1939???

Please let me know.

Laine

[streptile]

Also - as all of their 1914 EK1's are on the 1939 design, can I assume that they didn't make EK's prior to 1939?

This is a difficult question because we there are so many still-unidentified makers of the 1914 EK from the interwar period, and P&L could be one. However, their (typical) 1914 EK1s -- zinc, one-piece, low quality pieces -- are not substantially more numerous than their 1939 versions, so I also tend to believe that the 1939 P&L is not a Schinkel, i.e. was not adapted from an already existing design. It seems to me more likely that P&L started making one piece zinc EKs in 1939 for the private market.

[lainesnook]

Does anyone have a picture of a 1914 P&L EK2???

I would like to see what frame they are on.

Laine

[Dansson]

Does anyone have a picture of a 1914 P&L EK2???

I would like to see what frame they are on.

Laine

The frame is the same as the EK1.
Using the forum's search option, will provide you pictures of both classes

[lainesnook]

The frame is the same as the EK1.
Using the forum's search option, will provide you pictures of both classes

I searched and found 1, on a medal bar.

Can I assume that as the 1914 EK2 is on a 1939 frame, as are all of their other 1914 EK1's, that they were all made from 1939 onwards until mid 1941? I ask this as the 1939 obviously hadn't been 'invented' prior to 1939...

Are there any P&L catalogues from pre '39 that show EK's for sale?

Laine

[streptile]

I have already answered your question in my earlier post, but for clarity: I believe P&L made all their zinc one-piece EKs starting in 1939.

Consider who was shopping for EKs in 1939: those who won them in the previous war and were again in uniform were probably most numerous, so there are quite a few 1914 EK1s. But the 1914 EK2 was usually worn as a ribbon only, so they made very few. Next, new 1939 awardees, most of whom would have been awarded only the second class, but a smaller percentage of whom probably wanted a first class to wear instead of their award piece.

The numbers of different pieces available on the market (anecdotal evidence, but all we have) bear this out as well:

1914 EK1s > 1939 EK2s > 1939 EK1s > 1914 EK2s.

Just based on a decade + of being in the hobby, I would guess the proportions are something like this:

200 : 40 : 4 : 1

The piece on the bar is mine and I have been considering removing it (it's not attached, just tipped in) for many years. Maybe I'll finally do it.