1913 Austrian-Hungarian Pilot Badge

[Lubo]

Hey guys, could somebody tell me who is the maker of this pilot badge?
What I figure should point to the manufacturer is the curvy stamp with something like lower case letters “sja”, but not a 100% sure if I read this abbreviation correctly!
Other than that, it’s definitely an Austrian manufacturer, the eagle is stamped with the two A’s, has the silver stamp for 900/1000 content. I’m amazed by the extremely high quality of workmanship, much better than J. Zimbler ones.
Check out the hardware, it’s of superb quality, see how the extension of the “wishbone” under the hinge actually supports and protects the cross of the crown from breaking.
Also, can anyone recognize the signature on the reverse!?
I went pretty much through all written on the subject, couldn’t find one like this!
Thank you in advance and enjoy!

[Lubo]

One more shot at the “manufacturer’s” stamp

[Miro O]

Hi Lubo,

It is always enjoyment for me to see Austrian pilots badges showed off for discussion. This one would deserve one long evening with couple of beers and lot of opinions exchange between knowledged persons participating in it.

There are many likes and dislikes with this one. But at first, I would disagree with the opinion, that Zimbler quality is lower than this one, based on one simple argument, that this is in fact Zimbler design of eagle and wreath, just slightly modified. What does it mean slightly?

1. few outer curves of the wreath are simplified
2. the wreath is mirror reversed (the curves seen on the Zimblerˇs wreath on the right, are here placed on the left and vice versa)

The enamel aging is very convincing and each leaf looks to be enamelled separately, which is a good sign. Seeing just an obverse, I would probably pass it as a good privately purchased piece.

The reverse hardware looks fancy, maybe it can also catch a few mouses when stored on the right place with a small cheese on it
But as we know, AH pilots having bad experiences with subtle hardware on their awarded badges requested for stronger solutions on their privately purchased pieces, so the complicated hardware as this one can not be ruled out.

When it comes to engravings and markings, well, give me a break, that badge is tatooed like an old prison inmate... Many stamps and engraving styles always rise an eyebrow. The Gut Land wish is typical engraving for these pieces, but "April 1918" doesn´t make sense to me. It can not be award date, too late for FJ type, so it can be only the date of purchasing this badge (quite unusual but possible, if the badge was given to the pilot as a gift). But even in that case, I don´t like the rivets. Too fat for that era.

Judging from heavily depressed areas around some stamps, I would say they were added lately... One of them being the supposed maker´s mark.

Sorry that I didn´t answer your question but raised other ones, but without possibility of hand inspection, this is surely not quick decision piece, at least for me.

[Lubo]

Hi Miro, guys, thanks for jumping in! I’m reading your post and I’m smiling in satisfaction, because apparently you’ve seen stuff and you know your game.

Now, back to the post:
You didn’t read mine carefully as I said that the quality of execution is much higher than J.Zmbler ones, wasn’t talking about the design, the design is almost a match, anyone will agree.

You make a valid point as to why such an early model badge would have such a late date engraved, maybe that’s what was available in the store, or they liked this one among the other ones (I would), no clue.
This badge screams PRIVATE PURCHASE!

Rivets - maybe it’s unclear at the picture, but they took a lot of tightening hits, the one on the right has less hits, but still won’t be an excellent judgment point as to what their initial finish shape was, I’d think flat.

About the DIANAs head silver stamp - I’ve seen it even deeper, last one I remember was on a 3rd grade Cross of Takovo (first type), made by Anton Furst, so the deepness is not a good judging point, this one is as authentic as it could be, plus it took me a while to play with a cotton swab to take out all the dirt so I can clearly see it.

The gold plating over the silver base looks exactly as it should after all these years, this type of patina is probably impossible to fake. Maybe the front and back pictures of the badge I posted are a bit on the brighter side, but not too far off the real colors.

What I didn’t like at the start, was the ITALIAN STYLE catch, but then after some scrutiny I came to terms with it, it looks good in place.

If one ignores the many “tattoos” on the back and the fact that the Austro-Hungarian pilot badges are “swimming” out there in a sea of fakes and postwar WW2 made badges (by legit makers), this one would seem quite right to the knowledgeable collector from the first look, but since all the fakery out there, yes, it needs many more looks after the first one. For example I’d only buy Zimbler Pilot Badge in shows (after inhand scrutiny), or from a no questions asked returns vendor.

Maybe more people will chime in with interesting observations and opinions.
Again, who would this stamp represent as a maker?
And, I’ve been thinking that the signature could be like a facsimile signature of some Mr. Big Shot in the Austro-Hungarian aeronautics or something. Will have to compare to others in the books to see if they match.
Thank You!

[VtwinVince]

I find the reverse pretty crazy, but AH badges are not something I know much about. What is that engraved (?) signature on the lower left reverse?

[Lubo]

Hey guys, here is a good shot of the “signature” on the back left side, could someone read it 100%, apparently it represents the letters pretty clearly for the trained eye, but I’m still unsure if reading it “IRBAN” or “URBAN” would be correct. What is that stroke over the second letter (supposedly the “r”)?
If somebody has experience with that kind of stuff, please chime in.

[Brian L.]

I think it's 'Suban' because I think the first letter is an 'S' and 2nd letter is a 'u' as it's common in old German to write a short 'u' with a stroke over it and the "S' is written similar to this in old German Kurrentschrift. Also, 'Suban' is a Croatian name and of course Croatia was part of the Austro-Hungarian empire.

My second thought is 'Luban' because it also looks similar to an old German 'L' and 'Luban' is a Polish name.

[Lubo]

Hello, thank you for your input! You make a lot of sense, but I checked the first letter against many “S”s to compare and it’s close, but the tilt and the lower part are are a bit different. It looks more like an “I” or “L”. Of course it could very well be an “S”, it all depends on the writing habit of the person. I agree on the second letter completely!
Thanks again for jumping in!
In the meantime I found one more Viennese Assay Stamp along with one more stamp that I can’t make out!