Wwi tank memorial badge

[GRENAIDER]

Hello all. I was recently browsing the Weitze and Emedals website when I came across a WWI imperial memorial tank badge for sale. My question is how can one determine the authenticity of this badge? Are there any accepted variants of the piece that collectors would prefer? And lastly, have any groupings ever surfaced with this type of Tank badge? These badges are a minefield however I know one has to exist that is a good original. Best original, Martin.


https://www.weitze.com/militaria/71/...1__261671.html

https://www.emedals.com/a-very-rare-...ank-crew-badge

https://www.emedals.com/europe/germa...adge-wwi-g1659

https://www.emedals.com/europe/germa...ge-by-meybauer

[Forssmann]

One way to determine authenticity is to compare the badge in question to the maker's catalog. Since these are so rare, I'm not sure theres a preference for type, though there might be. And as far as groupings...I dont know.

Germany itself produced only 20 tanks in the entire war. Some British tanks were captured and used, but who knows how many. Plus the badge had to be applied for, so not everyone who warranted one got one due to apathy, or maybe they just disnt hear about the opportunity to get the badge etc. So the likelyhood of a grouping is slim.

[Don D.]

Sepp Dietrich's badges are well known. There are also photos of guys wearing the badge as well as catalogs selling them.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...wagonabzeichen

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...wagonabzeichen

The Meybauer one linked above is not the same type as pictured in their catalog and I would stay away from it. The other two are Juncker/Meybauer types. The first one came out of a Berlin Vets estate several years ago.

[GRENAIDER]

Hi Don. Thank you for the links, they will serve well as a reference point for me. It is a shame that these are nearly impossible to identify as they have always peaked my interest.

Best regards, Martin.

[Don D.]

The Juncker/Meybauer badges are not hard at all. They should match these.

[juvatwad]

I thought I'd bring this one back up with a badge I acquired. I can trace it back to Winkler who sold it in the 1990's. Whether that's good or bad, I'll let the piece speak for itself. The back plate has a weep hole just under the catch I didn't get in the photos. I looked at what little is available on these, and I believe this one is legit, but if you disagree, please let me know.

tnkbdg1.jpg tnkbdg2.jpg tnkbdg3.jpg tnkbdg4.jpg tnkbdg6.jpg tnkbdg7.jpg tnkbdg5.jpg

[gregM]

I like the badge. It has the detail I would expect in an original.
however, I'm not too sure about the engraving.

[Don D.]

The obverse deviates from the badge in the Meybauer catalog.

[VtwinVince]

That engraving is completely wrong for the period. The Germans did not refer to tanks as 'Panzer' during this period, but as 'Kampfwagen'.

[Don D.]

Except for beute panzer.

[Don D.]

Did the Germans use tanks in battle at Cambria in the winter of 1917? I'm not near my computer to check.

[GdC26]

Did the Germans use tanks in battle at Cambria in the winter of 1917? I'm not near my computer to check.

Not as far as I can tell from public sources - the counteroffensive involved artillery and Stoßtruppen, but no tanks, as far as I can tell, And the battle lasted from 20 November until 7 December - so not really winter. The engraving strikes me as likely problematic also for that reason.

[Don D.]

I agree. Suspect engraving, badge doesn't match maker catalog, Winkler involved. 3 strikes imo.

[juvatwad]

The obverse deviates from the badge in the Meybauer catalog.

Under a loop, the area shown in the top photo in post 5 is a match.


[QUOTE=That engraving is completely wrong for the period. The Germans did not refer to tanks as 'Panzer' during this period, but as 'Kampfwagen'.[/QUOTE]

The style looks like other pieces I have from the 1920's/30's/40's.


[QUOTE=Not as far as I can tell from public sources - the counteroffensive involved artillery and Stoßtruppen, but no tanks, as far as I can tell, And the battle lasted from 20 November until 7 December - so not really winter. The engraving strikes me as likely problematic also for that reason.[/QUOTE]

They certainly captured Mk IV's. whether they were used then or not, who knows? I would bet most people consider December winter.

Lest I get the standard WAF battering that I'm just trying to excuse the badge in the face of overwhelming evidence that it's bad, I'm simply pointing out that the reasons given above as strikes against it are not what I would consider "Class 1" evidence.

[Don D.]

I disagree. The details in post 5 are sharp and angular vs the more rounded details in the badge being discussed. Enlarge the pics and you will see.

If no german manned tanks were used in the battle then the engraving makes no sense.