uboot badge I WK

[Passo Stanco]

they offered me this badge. I wanted to know if it's original or a copy. the marking I can not read it from the picture and does not send me any better images.
it does not seem original to me but I could be wrong
Thanks for your help

[Don D.]

A poor fake.

[fsee]

It looks extremely worn, which could be a good sign, but if the core metal is zinc or some type of white metal, I would stay away from it. If the badge is 800 silver, and was originally fire gilded, it may be real. I've seen Walter Schott badges stamped with two t's on the end, and I have seen them with one t, with an elongated top arm on the T, like this. If that mark beneath the maker stamp is clearly fec and not foc, it's another good sign.

Before you decide, ask the seller for better photos and ask for a silver test to be done.

I would not worry too much about the lack of fine detail on it since many of the late war (it was not authorized until Jan. 1918 I believe) badges were pretty rough.

[fsee]

Schott Badge

Here is a Schott from my collection for comparison.

[fsee]

Maker Mark

Here is the maker stamp.

[Don D.]

That is not a good one either imo.

[Don D.]

It looks extremely worn, which could be a good sign, but if the core metal is zinc or some type of white metal, I would stay away from it. If the badge is 800 silver, and was originally fire gilded, it may be real. I've seen Walter Schott badges stamped with two t's on the end, and I have seen them with one t, with an elongated top arm on the T, like this. If that mark beneath the maker stamp is clearly fec and not foc, it's another good sign.

Before you decide, ask the seller for better photos and ask for a silver test to be done.

I would not worry too much about the lack of fine detail on it since many of the late war (it was not authorized until Jan. 1918 I believe) badges were pretty rough.

You can see a casting line on that badge. It is definitely a poorly cast fake. There are many originals posted on the forum for comparison.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=schott

[Brian L.]

That is not a good one either imo.

agree. Lots of red flags on this badge.

[fsee]

That is not a good one either imo.

Hi Don. Which badge are you referring to, mine? If so, what exactly do you see that might be a red flag? Thanks.

[Gary B]

As an FYI, Schott is the designer of the badge and not the manufacturer. I recall Fec indicates "created/designed by" or something similar in meaning.

Gary B

[Don D.]

Hi Don. Which badge are you referring to, mine? If so, what exactly do you see that might be a red flag? Thanks.

The front design is not correct. The reverse hardware and maker mark is wrong.

[fsee]

The front design is not correct. The reverse hardware and maker mark is wrong.

Don, sorry but I have to disagree. There are always slight variations on maker stamps, depending on how hard they are struck (all by hand..) and if they are leaning one way or the other with the press. Every maker had more than one die and even the hardware will vary on all types of badges depending on when it was made and what catches were in stock at the time. These badges were made from 1918 all the way through the 1940's and there will always be some variations. IMO

[Don D.]

That doesn't account for the obverse design differences. The "T" on the maker mark alone tells me it is bad. I do hate to be the bearer of bad news.

[Brian L.]

Don, sorry but I have to disagree. There are always slight variations on maker stamps, depending on how hard they are struck (all by hand..) and if they are leaning one way or the other with the press. Every maker had more than one die and even the hardware will vary on all types of badges depending on when it was made and what catches were in stock at the time. These badges were made from 1918 all the way through the 1940's and there will always be some variations. IMO

All Schott badges were contemporary to the end of the war and not issued "through the 1940's". So, your point as regards this badge are wrong.
On your badge, the pointed pin and hinge block are wrong. Your badge is too thick. Schott badges are much thinner and have a wreath that has a round edge that tapers to the back. Yours has a flat, thich, cut-out edge. Schott badges almost always have a flange on the inside of the wreath, sometimes quite pronounced and some also have a slight flange on the outside of the wreath: the one in post #10 has this. Don is correct about the Schott mark on your badge. It's not even the same font style as originals and is actually too deep, sharp and clear. Also, the details on the obverse of your badge are nothing like a Schott. There were no variations of the badge other than some later ones with a gilt finish (like post #10). The originals were bronze and patinated in matte green. The green was not popular and so you rarely find then without most of the green rubbed off.

Here is an original issued Schott with a lot of the green patination in the crevices. The flange on the inside of the wreath is particularly evident near the rudder of the UBoat.

The difference in details between yours and this one are obvious. I agree with Don and it's unfortunate. But, yours is a fake.

[Gary B]

Fsee,

You will note that the design between mine and bolewts58 are identical as is the "creator/designer" mark (not maker) on the reverse. For me the mark on the reverse has always been the easiest way to authenticate one of these badges. The last "T" in Schott has an extra long top portion and there is no vertical leg for the 1st "T" in the mark.

Gary B