1914 EK1 with engraving to an Officer during Somme Battle

[triggerguard]

I don't believe a craftsman uses the help (horizontal) lines, as a kid in kindergarten uses to aid in their first writing. It is a fake.

How little you may be correct. Almost no one is capable of doing engraving freehand and almost no one who cares about what they are doing would even think about trying it. The design, almost without exception, has to somehow be put on the item before the engraving is done. Period. Lines were lightly marked to follow... yup... like in Kindergarten. Now a days though, whatever the engraver wishes to put on the item is transferred to the item by other means. And those guidelines get removed after the engraving is done. But those means did not exit years ago and most certainly also not for a person that is even today working with less than the most up to date methods. This engraving was not done by "up to date" equipment or methods for whatever reason, be it because it was done a long time ago or because someone wants you to think it was. The lines themselves have nothing to say about the period it was engraved in, only that the method used to engrave isn't the most modern method. And, by the way... a craftsman... would know that.

[Brian R]

I'd also guess that the lines on this one are barely visible via the naked eye and are accentuated by the lighting, similar to the way the engraving is so bright and appears to lack patina.

[Dansson]

Here is another month and year engraved EK1 that I have, that's attributed to the fighting in the east. I find this one very believable.

"Narew Juli 1915"

Beneath the pin is "R.v.H." which I believe are the initials of the owner.

[triggerguard]

Morell...Please excuse my lack of respectful expression in my last post... not intended to be personal about it...it is perhaps time for me to back out on this. My apologies..

[Green]

Here an example of an engraving with also a engraved number. This engraving is almost for sure authentic........but you never know for sure

Deutscher Offizier Verein 950 Silver Membership badge II.jpg

Deutscher Offizier Verein 950 Silver Membership badge I.jpg

[Green]

Here an example of an engraving with also a engraved membership number. This engraving is almost for sure authentic, however........you don´t know this 100 % for sure

Deutscher Offizier Verein Engraving Membership badge II.jpg

Deutscher Offizier Verein Engraving Membership badge I.jpg

Sliver membership medal of the DOV (Deutscher Offizier Verein) around 1900.

[morel5000]

How little you may be correct. Almost no one is capable of doing engraving freehand and almost no one who cares about what they are doing would even think about trying it. The design, almost without exception, has to somehow be put on the item before the engraving is done. Period. Lines were lightly marked to follow... yup... like in Kindergarten. Now a days though, whatever the engraver wishes to put on the item is transferred to the item by other means. And those guidelines get removed after the engraving is done. But those means did not exit years ago and most certainly also not for a person that is even today working with less than the most up to date methods. This engraving was not done by "up to date" equipment or methods for whatever reason, be it because it was done a long time ago or because someone wants you to think it was. The lines themselves have nothing to say about the period it was engraved in, only that the method used to engrave isn't the most modern method. And, by the way... a craftsman... would know that.

You as an engraver should now that I as a customer would not buy your engraving if the help lines are still visible. I would return it to you and call it sloppy.

here are some more interesting threads on engraving. No lines seen.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ngraving+study

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ngraving+study

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ngraving+study

[triggerguard]

You are correct, a good engraver would not leave guide lines on his/her work. Inexperienced and beginner engravers did/do though because they were/are trained to. The mentioned item was apparently not done by a skillful/experienced engraver but that fact does not answer whether or not it is old or real.
And you make a good point... sloppy work, be it new or old.

[Chris Boonzaier]

YNo lines seen.

y

Usually they are so feint they can be buffed or polished off once the engraving is done.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here an example of an engraving with also a engraved number. This engraving is almost for sure authentic........but you never know for sure

[ATTACH]3978733[/ATTACH]

[ATTACH]3978734[/ATTACH]

Hi Green,

I would have no problems with those because for the simple fact that they were made to be engraved with a name. It would be strange to see one without a name.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Here is an example of how things can go pearshaped... I have a group to an officer, on his award document it states that the iron cross 1 was awarded to him personally by the kaiser.

Probably one of 50 officers to get it from the Kaiser that day.

You can bet your ass I have considered having his name, the date of the action and the fact that it was awarded by the kaiser engraved on the cross. Not to increase the value, but simply to make damned sure that the cross continues through its life without loosing its history...

Have i done it, no.

Do I think that it would be a legit action to document the past of the cross, yes.

If I had the name, rank, date place and "awarded by the kaiser" engraved... in 30 years time it may be posted somewhere and questions may be asked if it is original, and someone would comment perfect hand engraving....

That is why I think with 90% of these, it is gut feeling ...

[Elmar Lang]

You as an engraver should now that I as a customer would not buy your engraving if the help lines are still visible. I would return it to you and call it sloppy.

Hello again,

in a preceding post, I've quoted the Sardinian, then Italian medals for Valour: in their history, from 1833 to 1946 they were almost all, officially engraved with the recipient's name, date and where the act of gallantry took place.

Of course, they were engraved by hand (pantograph, "Gravo-Graph" machines, etc. became common on these medals, of the Republic type, after 1955-60).

Well, the engravings, always highly accurately done, show more or less visible guidelines.

Best wishes,

E.L.