Bavarian pilot badge Karl Pöllath made from silver

[magnusmilitaria]

Hello !

I find this Bavarian pilot badge on the net.
Badge is marked behind Karl Pöllath Sch.. and SILBER
Its identical to the badge in Stephen Thomas Previtera book Imperial sky on peage 410,411 and in Imperial German Flight Badges book from Robert S. Pandis peage 125,126,127.
In both books this badge is presented like 1st type early badge.
Back plate have realy identical silver back plate with the same fabric crest and design so all is possible.
I would like to get some more opinions and coments about this badge.
Thank you in advance !

Best Regards
Marko

[Hagrid]

Hi Marko!
You mentioned the references yourself - nothing to complain here, in my opinion.
Should be a nice original issue, even the little cross on top is still in place.
Regards
Hagrid

[nhcoejr]

Poellath

Very nice and hard to find badge in this condition. N. Coe

[magnusmilitaria]

Thank you guys for opinions. Looks really nice period badge.
Here re some reference pics for exactly the same type badge :

[sshort]

There is another opinion from another author that all Pollath Bavarian two piece pilots badges had a smooth backplate through 1919 and the fluted reverse came later. So that should bring up a discussion as to whether this is an "early 1 st type badge"or a late war or possibly post war. Also related but no definite conclusion is the "Silber" mark on the back plate indicated these were not 800 parts silver. I remember reading that here on the forum a few years back. At any rate, a silver maker marked Bavarian Pilot is a keeper!

[magnusmilitaria]

I also get the same answer from this author that this is not 1st pattern Bavarian PB.
About the mark ˝SILBER˝ under the markers mark and fluted reverse you can also find on early Bavarian Observers badges ! They re totaly the same than this.
In my opinion ˝SILBER˝or ˝800˝ are both regular markings.

[M Wipf]

Opinions, everybody has one.

Beautiful badge, congratulations ..

Mike

[ccj]

I like it a lot

[phild]

Its a very nice badge.


Some general comments about the ray backs on pilot badges (several makers) and this may be well understood "old news", but I don't recall reading a thread on this. It has long been my opinion that the ray or fluted backs found on pilots badges were nothing more or less than the utilization of Observer Badge backs in the fabrication of pilots badges.

Back 30 and 40 years ago (and perhaps still today) a lot of collectors that I knew put a bit of a big deal in the pilots badges with ray backs ( a lot of fakes had these too!) as somehow "nicer" or more desirable. To each his own, but for me they are just a bit of a point of interest and nothing more in terms of comparing to a flat back badge.

As I have written here many times, I believe that these two piece Juncker and Poellath badges were the official award badges of Prussia and Bavaria, respectively (there may have been some other makers for Prussia as well) and as such were made to a specific standard.....that was approved and adhered to. That said, I would also think that these same construction badges were also available for private purchase......perhaps with these type ray backs and in different material qualities.

[nhcoejr]

Poellath

Poellath pilot badges have a complcated background. The difference in the names Carl or Karl is not even fully understood. All that is certain in my opinion is that Poellath was an award bage and were made 1914/1918 and post war. Whether or not the rayback is an early badge or private purchase piece is still an open question.The arguments for and against the rayback as an early piece versus the arguments for the smooth back are essentially the same. You can make a logical argument for both types.
Nice period piece, N. Coe

[Ferg 1]

Nice looking badge, but I have to say that I have never been completely convinced about this type of badge. They appear in pilot and observer only and are completely different to the usual pollath badges in terms of detail ,pin,catch, hinge , maker Mark , even the ray back design is different which to me asks more questions than it answers. Why would a company produce a completely different badge in all aspects for such a relatively small demand. Maybe the tooling broke and had to be remade but surely not the whole hardware set up and maker Mark and reverse plate too. On the plus side of the argument you don't see too many of these so I guess if fakes then there might be more around . I would like to hear some more convincing info on these but as with this collecting sphere , is unlikely . Too many missing parts in this jigsaw ! Ferg

[magnusmilitaria]

Agree with you Ferg.
Total different fabric die front and back , but simmilar to the Observer badge
marked Karl Pöllath Schrobenhausen and SILBER.

True, if this badge was repro why is so rare on market , good question !
I have a chance to get this badge but I would like to be 100% shure that is ww1 period badge .

Regards
Marko

[nhcoejr]

It is interesting to read all of these well thought out opinions but until more documentation comes to light , these discussions will continue.
Even with the flat back version there are some questions. Why stamp the name and silver content on the pin when there is a large flat surface, N. Coe

[magnusmilitaria]

Here re pics of Pilot badge the same type and Bavarian observer badge.
Badge is so nice and well period made that I simply cant belive that this badge could be repro ! Ferg gived a good question if this badge is copy why we cant find it more on the market !?

[Hagrid]

The crown design is not identical and the bows differ as well as the wreaths (oak leaves and oaks).
The reverse seems to be the same, though.
Regards
Hagrid