1870 Iron Cross from Estate sale!

[MontanaBoy]

Hello,
This is a badge / pin that I picked up at a local estate sale. I don't collect this type of stuff, but thought it was a neat piece so I bought it. A fellow member offered to add photos. Thank you.

[gregM]

Here are pictures of Mark's cross --

[gregM]

and ---

[gregM]

more -

[101combatvet]

I'm almost certain this is a copy; however, I am not an expert in this area of collecting. The crown seems to be off for a J.Wagner & S. 14 Loth.

[gregM]

WOW, 80 people have viewed this thread but only one reply.

It must be because of the holiday weekend. IMO this is a textbook example
of a Wagner 1st class cross.

[101combatvet]

WOW, 80 people have viewed this thread but only one reply.

It must be because of the holiday weekend. IMO this is a textbook example
of a Wagner 1st class cross.

Very possible, I do like the pin and the hallmark. The new pics do make the crown appear better.

[streptile]

Perfect original piece in excellent condition.

This is not one of Wagner's common pins but I've seen others like it before. I think their early award-type needle pins started breaking and they experimented a bit before settling on the second pin type, show below:

K147646_2.jpg

It could also be a replaced pin added when the original needle pin broke, as so many did. Finding an original award-type with an unbroken needle-pin is extremely difficult.

Anyway, this is a fine example of a Wagner 1870 EK1, and very valuable.

[otter76]

Hello,
This is a badge / pin that I picked up at a local estate sale. I don't collect this type of stuff, but thought it was a neat piece so I bought it. A fellow member offered to add photos. Thank you.

Wish I had your luck. To me its a very convincing EKI and with that said, a holy fuc... grail if it comes to be a good Wagner 1870.

[tompress]

/.../

This is not one of Wagner's common pins but I've seen others like it before. /.../

Is this not a pin like used by Wagner for EK1 1914? May be repaired by the maker in WW1 era?

regards
Tomasz

[Miro O]

Very nice cross with Wagner A1 core type.

To me it looks like later pin, which quite often appears on these A type EK1s.

Hard to believe that such cross, apparently handled with care, needed just the pin to be replaced - and not the catch.

[Miro O]

Is this not a pin like used by Wagner for EK1 1914? May be repaired by the maker in WW1 era?

regards
Tomasz

It is clearly different pin. When you look at the head of it, it sits above the hinge level on the thread starter cross, while it is even with hinge level on your WW1 cross.

[tompress]

It is clearly different pin. When you look at the head of it, it sits above the hinge level on the thread starter cross, while it is even with hinge level on your WW1 cross.

Right, not the best example on my picture, but Wagner has used also very similiar pins with head above the hinge. But for sure, this form of pin is not unique for Wagner...

[Miro O]

This is not one of Wagner's common pins but I've seen others like it before. I think their early award-type needle pins started breaking and they experimented a bit before settling on the second pin type, show below:

[ATTACH]3846308[/ATTACH]

It could also be a replaced pin added when the original needle pin broke, as so many did.

I agree that second pin types quite vary in shape and length, but imo it is because of the obvious reason - these are not awarded EK1s, where regulations were probably strict, but privately purchased crosses (as we know A types were produced up to WW1). Which means many jewellers, big and small, sharing cores and frames from the same source and attaching either bought hardware, or making their own, very similar one.

Btw, Trevor, on your example even the hinge is different.

[Andy K.]

This is an original Wagner & Sohn EK I 1871 with A1 iron core without any doubt. The pin is replaced, but this hardly affects the historical and market value.

Congratulations to this perfect purchase.

Andy