Meybauer Naval Aviator badges

[all1knew]

Hello all,

A friend of mine has these badges but can only access WAF from his phone so I thought it would be easier if I just posted for him. Now, the marine sea-pilot badge I came across here is obviously different:

http://wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/s...d.php?t=871515

but I do know that Meybauer kept producing throughout the Weimar and into the Third Reich so I guess it is possible it could be another pattern entirely.

Also to note is the badge on the left is a sew on example and does not have reverse hardware. Is it true that generally speaking Meybauer badges should be "900" marked rather than "800" silver? If so that would be another knock against these.

The pair is out of my realm though I thought it would be better to have them discussed rather than dismissing them as fakes right off the bat. It is very possible that they are absolute junk and loaded with artificial patina but better to educate myself I've posted for review. To note, neither has the cutout areas of the crown but if they are fakes why would the faker that could make badges of this caliber blatantly miss something so obvious? The age and wear is pretty convincing in my opinion and the hardware on the reverse of the one badge is very Meybauer-esque (but from what era I do not know and typically where the pin meets the hinge is usually fanned out)

Any feedback and opinions would be greatly appreciated. Thank you in advance.

William Kramer

[all1knew]

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[all1knew]

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[all1knew]

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[all1knew]

reverse of block style hinge.

[Ferg 1]

Sea pilot badge is certainly a copy and not a Meybauer design. The observer I would say is a bad one too,the details on the front seem very 'soft' and like the sea pilot does not match up to Meybauer design . Reverse plate is not a recognized Meybauer style either. Sorry. Ferg

[Hagrid]

Hi William!
If the punch on the observer is meant to be a Meybauer makers mark the badge has the wrong eagle design and a different hinge well.
I always wondered whether this type of MM is Meybauer at all or just another maker with a similar punch (Or a bad try to mimick Meybauer´s trademark. Or plain bogus after all.)
Regards
Hagrid
edit: Ferg was quicker....

[Gary Symonds]

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[Gary Symonds]

Here is my version of the Sea Plane Pilot made by Schaper. The reverse has the crown cut-outs and a lanyard loop at the top.

The obverse is identical to the one posted by Kramer.

No 800 markings on reverse.

Obviously, the obverse die was used by different makers, probably after 1918.

Opinions?

[Ferg 1]

Sorry,well known copy. NOT a schaper piece or design. These are seen for sale regularly and fool collectors regularly too. Ferg

[Gary Symonds]

Sorry,well known copy. NOT a schaper piece or design. These are seen for sale regularly and fool collectors regularly too. Ferg

Interesting. You may be right.
Please post a post a picture.of an original.
If these "are seen for sale regularly" where are they?
These should readily available, and they are not.

[Ferg 1]

I tried to post a pic but the system does not seem to want to download it. I am sure that there are threads showing my sea pilots on here somewhere ! Next best thing , if you have a copy of Carsten Baldes reference then look on pages 394 thru to 401,these are real Schaper badges. As far as I know , Schaper only had one ever die for these badges. Apart from the front details on your badge being quite different the hardware on reverse is not typical most obviously the catch position, Schaper always set their catches higher up the badge than these,sounds a small detail but it is a 'without fail ' characteristic. When I say 'seen regularly ' I am refering to the times these copies appear on the market compared to the real thing, we are still talking about a highly specialized market with both real and copies, so I may have mislead you into thinking they are on every dealers site. The most obvious thing to watch out for on this particular type ( there are marine observer and land flieger types too like this) is the pronounced three balls or orbs around the base of the main orb atop of crown, they are all like this. Just to add one extra thing , I have seen this badge with bogus Meybauer marks too. Do some close scrutiny on the MM too it is different to the original ones . Ferg