1870 EKII for review....again

[streptile]

It is interesting that on my first cross, the small ring is movable. What is the reason for such performance? All other crosses of this type is always fixed (soldered) ring.

WR Kirill

Good question.

Here is mine, which I love because I actually believe it to be worn by a non-combatant. Of course you can never know with 100% certainty but this ensemble has the right period feel to me.

[kid74]

Does anyone have information on the manufacture ЕК2 1870 by Deschler&Son?

WR Kirill

[Miro O]

It is interesting that on my first cross, the small ring is movable. What is the reason for such performance? All other crosses of this type is always fixed (soldered) ring.

WR Kirill

It gives you the opportunity to remove (or open) the small ring, and put in its place (or between small ring and ribbon ring) the 25 oaks. Of course, such oaks must be of type which has loop(s) on reverse, instead of prongs.

Soldering the jumpring is the weakest point of whole cross. Thin wire is soldered to small area and quickly cracks. With device like this, the weakest point is removed.

[Miro O]

Here is mine, which I love because I actually believe it to be worn by a non-combatant. Of course you can never know with 100% certainty but this ensemble has the right period feel to me.

Interesting set with early oaks.

[gregM]

Nice cross Trevor

[kid74]

It gives you the opportunity to remove (or open) the small ring, and put in its place (or between small ring and ribbon ring) the 25 oaks. Of course, such oaks must be of type which has loop(s) on reverse, instead of prongs.

Soldering the jumpring is the weakest point of whole cross. Thin wire is soldered to small area and quickly cracks. With device like this, the weakest point is removed.

Thank You Miro! But the question is that this is the only cross of this type I've seen, with moving a small ring. But it looks like it was done on purpose, in the factory, isn't it?

WR Kirill

[kid74]

Good question.

Here is mine, which I love because I actually believe it to be worn by a non-combatant. Of course you can never know with 100% certainty but this ensemble has the right period feel to me.

Very unusual, beautiful set. Thank you Trevor&

WR Kirill

[Miro O]

Thank You Miro! But the question is that this is the only cross of this type I've seen, with moving a small ring. But it looks like it was done on purpose, in the factory, isn't it?

WR Kirill

Yes, so far it is the only one cross type, that has a factory made moving jumpring as a default. I saw and have also a few other pieces with moving jumpring, but these are exceptions from types that are mostly seen with static jumpring as default. With these, reason for existence of moving jumpring must be executed piece by piece. Some pieces have it as a result of jeweler´s repair, but there are some pieces that have it evidently done from the beginning. So it is probably low volume production, either as jeweler´s attempt to have something in offer with high-end look, or at customer´s request.

There is also a third cathegory of moving jumpring pieces. Not every jeweler soldered the jumpring same way. Only the best knew, that jumpring would be stronger, if before soldering the small hole to the frame is done. It rapidly raises the contact (and thus soldering) area between jumpring wire and frame. If such soldering cracked after a time, jumpring - if still closed -, could stay in the hole and moved in it like pin in the hinge.

[Miro O]

Of course, when I say "hole", I do not mean hole through the whole frame. Only depression done within the thickness of frame half. Like this one.

[kid74]

Yes, so far it is the only one cross type, that has a factory made moving jumpring as a default. I saw and have also a few other pieces with moving jumpring, but these are exceptions from types that are mostly seen with static jumpring as default. With these, reason for existence of moving jumpring must be executed piece by piece. Some pieces have it as a result of jeweler´s repair, but there are some pieces that have it evidently done from the beginning. So it is probably low volume production, either as jeweler´s attempt to have something in offer with high-end look, or at customer´s request.

There is also a third cathegory of moving jumpring pieces. Not every jeweler soldered the jumpring same way. Only the best knew, that jumpring would be stronger, if before soldering the small hole to the frame is done. It rapidly raises the contact (and thus soldering) area between jumpring wire and frame. If such soldering cracked after a time, jumpring - if still closed -, could stay in the hole and moved in it like pin in the hinge.

Yes it was! And one of the few who have this technology brought to the manufacturing - Deshler&Sohn.

See post #11

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=EK+AWS

WR Kirill

[kid74]

Yes it was! And one of the few who have this technology brought to the manufacturing - Deshler&Sohn.

See post #11

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=EK+AWS

WR Kirill

I now have no way to post photos myself, unfortunately. Note how similar shapes and technologies of execution of the cross (EK2 1914) from Deschler&Sohn and cross which I showed from the site Woschler-Orden (EK2 1870). Perhaps this cross (from site Wöschler-Orden) is a prototype for further crosses of the company Deschler&Sohn?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=EK+AWS

http://woeschler-orden.de/node/2805

WR Kirill

[gregM]

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[Miro O]

I now have no way to post photos myself, unfortunately. Note how similar shapes and technologies of execution of the cross (EK2 1914) from Deschler&Sohn and cross which I showed from the site Woschler-Orden (EK2 1870). Perhaps this cross (from site Wöschler-Orden) is a prototype for further crosses of the company Deschler&Sohn?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=EK+AWS

http://woeschler-orden.de/node/2805

WR Kirill

It´s interesting theory, but you need more sufficient arguments to prove it wrong or right. At first you would need better photos from Woeschler.
At second, there are as many similarities, as differences:

- Is there (on EK2 1870) similar ring soldering as on Deschler 14 and 39 crosses?
Yes, it is.
- Is it the same overall shape?
At a first sight, we can say yes.

But:

- Is the 1870 core pebbled as Deschler 1914 pieces?
No, it is structured as typical cast piece, but not pebbled.
- Is it the same frame?
Clearly no. The most distinctive corners are top right inner corner and lower left outer corner.
- Woeschler´s EK2 has generic A-type core. Did Deschler use generic cores in 1914 and 1939?
No. He is known for using his own, very specific core design.

So, it´s a long way to Tipperary...

[kid74]

[QUOTE=Miro O;7582228]It´s interesting theory, but you need more sufficient arguments to prove it wrong or right. At first you would need better photos from Woeschler.
At second, there are as many similarities, as differences:


Miro You understand the direction of my thinking! Thank you!

WR Kirill

[kid74]

Maybe someone will be interested:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=EK+1870

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...hlight=EK+1870

WR Kirill