Juncker marked cliche pilot's badge.

[Tiger 1]

I just found these photos of a cliche Juncker pilot badge. What is unusual is that yhe badge has yhe Juncker trademark on yhe reverse. It's a bit hard to see but you can make it out.
I got this badge many years ago and foolishly let it go for something I no longer remember or have for that matter. I have not seen another one since. The lessons we learn in our collecting journey.
Any and all comments welcome. Thanks.
Tony

[Tiger 1]

Closeup of mm.

[Tiger 1]

Damn! Taking a nap.

[Tiger 1]

Let's try it again....

[Tiger 1]

Much better.....

[Andy K.]

Hello Tony:

Unfortunately the Juncker marking is really difficult to read. But the “R” of the mark of the reverse has caused a clearly visible dent on the obverse of the badge.
This might be the reason why Juncker stopped directly marking the single hollow produced Pilot and Observer Badges (except the single hollow Air Gunner Badge).

Andy

[juoneen]

The mark may have been added , but the previous explanation may be correct . I might call this a first issue badge.
I always was of the assumption the mark was reserved for silver badges with a backing plate , and most first issue versions in most cases are not marked .( I suppose you don't recall who chinga'd you on this one who might still have it ? If so, maybe it could be tested to see if it is made of silver.)
If not you probably weren't an imperial collector at the time.
I agree.... It IS unusual .

I posted a L/12 condor tank badge years back (purchased from a veteran just after WW2) that also was dented on the front of the badge at moustasche level on the skull that was a hollow back , so it just may be . (could it be a post ww1 transitional replacement badge ??) I dunno.....but we all want one now, and this evidence supports Andy Ks's comment , and my comment is the same as others said at that time in the condor badges case I still have)
Good theory Andy, ....makes sense ......and, Because of your diligence Tiger 1 ( that is post traumatic in nature) , ... we will all pay closer attention in the future . Good thread .

[Rich G]

As far as I can see it is not a Juncker badge. Certainly doesn't have the same characteristics...look at the road for example and compare it to a known original Juncker badge.

Rich.

[Ferg 1]

Certainly not out of the Juncker dies but from the square punch maker. Ferg

[Andy K.]

Hello Tony:
Please post a picture of the reverse of the badge with the closed pin. Thanks.
Andy

[Hagrid]

Like Ferg said:
Square punch design versus Juncker mark => fake, imho!
Two more things @ juoneen:
- I have not seen a hollow Juncker example with a makers mark so far.
- The mark for silver was "halfmoon and 800" on Juncker badges - no need for testing here.
I think its ok not having this specimen in ones collection...
Regards
Hagrid

[Andy K.]

Today I have looked at the stamping of the pilot badge. I agree with Ferg that this badge is not a production of C. E. Juncker, but by the square punch marker Carl Dillenius.

I cannot see any points on this pictures indicated that this badge is a fake. The only thing what gives me food for thought is the marker mark Juncker on a Carl Dillenius badge.
This makes no sense to me, because as far as I know Juncker produced all its badges in own workshops.

Andy

[Ferg 1]

A few things worry me about this badge (without including the Juncker MM). Firstly the pin style is wrong for a square punch badge, it seems to be a semi-hollow type strike from the soft looking detail of the reverse.Secondly the front detail seems a little ' casty ' in certain areas ,more precisely , the ragged line of the underside of the aircraft fuselage and the ragged pock marked appearance of the crown base rim. The whole thing seems a little shaky ! Ferg

[Tiger 1]

Thanks guys.
Very interesting info and discussion.
These are the only two Images I have of this particular badge as it has moved on many years ago, perhaps in the late 80's or early 90s.
Tony