Naval observer badge

[Christian J]

Saved this picture some years ago. Only front available. Is it trying to be a Schaper or is it one? Seems a bit soft.

[Hagrid]

Hi!
Since no one seems to be willing to judge the badge, I´ll give you my own private thoughts I had when seeing the picture the first time
First of all it´s always difficult without the backside view...
Second I agree with your "softness" ( 8 o´clock leaves, sun and rays, eagle belly-feathers) - parts look like having been treated with a hammer or haven´t been very detailed from the beginning.
Third the gold-rub-off shows broncen material underneath, but the big dent above the tie is golden all the way - maybe repainted?

Considering the amount of fakes around and the price a real one would cost....
...I would stay away from this one, if this picture is the only basis for a decision.
Regards
Hagrid

[Christian J]

Thanks for the input. No one else?

[Ferg 1]

As said, I too would feel happier making a decision if I could see the reverse, but I feel it has potential. Cross at top looks a bit vague but not too worrying. The dent refered to just above bows is seen often in various places on Schaper badges and many others ,although not normally this large . It is usually quite simply down to a foreign body in the die when striking took place, the reverse of Schaper badges are seen with this often. The detail seems quite good to me ,but again taking Schaper as an example , badges exist where the detail is soft ,either fine detail on centre and softer detail on wreath or the opposite. The bronze planchets were softened by heat before striking to make them 'flow' better into the die detail but a low pressure strike would cause areas to be lacking sharp detail , a characteristic often encountered,quite normal. Ferg

[Hagrid]

Hi Ferg!
Is it known to what temperature the planchets have been heated? A kind of "recipe" - like "put it into the oven for 10 minutes at 500 degrees" or "heat it up until glowing dark red" or "...until the surface is soft enough to leave a indentation with a steel needle" or the something like that?
I always wondered about the veined structure some of the backgrounds of the observer badges have (and thought about it more as a sign for a cast copy...).
Now it seems a good explanation for that phenomenon that the metal could have had an almost doughlike consistency when pressed. And, of course, that no one really cared to blow or brush away any tiny foreign bodies in the process, if that much heat was involved.
Can it be said, as a resume, that these characteristics (veines, dents and partial softness) are sooner a sign for originality than for a cast copy?
Interesting...
Regards
Hagrid

[Tiger 1]

The process refered to is called anealling. Metal is heated to critical temperature and allowed to cool on it's own. This brings the metal to what is refered to as dead soft or a Neal led state. Different metals have different critical temps.
Usually the sheet stock when delivered is in a soft state to the end user, in this case we're talking the badge manufacturor. With soffter metals like tombak, nickle silver and the such hardness is not a an issue when struck, stamped or pressed in steel dies.
The annealed metal, being in a soft state, allows the metal to flow much easier under the pressure of minting the badge using steel dies.
Other factors to consider would be how far apart the dies are in relation to the thickness and of the anealled plancette used. Striking pressure is also a factor in how well the planchette fills the die. These are the factors that also determine a crisp versus a softer strike in regards to details of the finished product.
Hope this helps some.
Tony

[Hagrid]

Thank you, Tony, for the explanation -
so there was no heat involved during the pressing process itself - the "softening" of the material had taking place earlier.
I missunderstood what Ferg wrote, then.
Regards
Hagrid

[nhcoejr]

Just my opinion but I do not understand how anyone can make a serious comment on this badge by looking at this one picture. Even with many high quality pictures to review, if one wants to buy an original Imperial Flight badge, one should have it in one's hands. Too many good fakes in the market . Collecting these pieces is a minefield even with experise, N. Coe

[Christian J]

I was looking through some old files and think I've found what must be the back of mentioned badge. See if it helps with more final opinions.

[Hagrid]

The hinge and needle setup are not what Schaper had in use and I don´t like the overall look of the backsurface of the badge either (Extra structures at loop and catch?? Random scratches and dents?)
Pandis has this needle setup in his book for an unknown maker (he calls it the "stylized firm"), but they used a slightly different eagle pattern.
If I would go for this badge it´ll better be not too expensive
Regards
Hagrid

[Christian J]

Thanks Hagrid. If I remember correctly it went cheap and it was because of that I saved the pictures.

[Stephen Previtera]

Hi Christian,
This badge appears to me to be a cast copy of s Schaper badge. It has the form of the details correct, but then the outlying details around the top of the crown and the laurel leaves in the 7 'clock position have lost their detail. The eagle is nicely rendered as is the sun just to the left of it. Well done, but then as already pointed out, the hardware is completely wrong. Most Schaper repros at least get the broad flat pin shape correct. This one does not even make the attempt. Not seen one like this before so it is great to have an example to study.

Stephen

[Christian J]

Thanks Stephen. I value your input.