Lance head and base

[Johnny R]

These are being sold locally as being WWI Prussian. They are currently mounted on a 3.5+ bamboo lance that the seller believes to be not original. I cannot read the writing and know that the Germans used a lance made of rolled steel that was almost 3 feet shorter. Thinking they could be British or even American? Does anyone recognize the marker or form of the head?

[Johnny R]

Markings

[Johnny R]

Stamp on base and other side of lance head

[phild]

I think that the shaft is original. I know that bamboo was used prior to the roll steel and I think the latter was introduced in about 1892/93.

I can tell you for sure if the spike style with the fluted sides is correct for an earlier German states regulation spike or not as I have never examined one that would date earlier than 1890. By that date the sides were flat with no flutes or concave indents.

Lastly as you stated, WKC made a lot of edged weapons including lances for export contracts.....so I would check carefully for German viewer marks as I would expect absolutely they would be on a German military lance head from the mid 1800s on and I know that they were on the 1890 examples.

I said that Bamboo was used before the steel, but I am not 100% sure that the Germans used it (I think that they did) but if not, they used wood. I know 100% that the British lances were made from Bamboo in the later 1800s.

[phild]

I would ask how long is this? You state 3.5+, is this 3.5 yards? I think that the steel lances were about 10.5 feet just as a comparison.

Any clarification of the other markings that you show would be good as well. This is am early lance and not many are still around with these bamboo shafts intact.

[phild]

Sorry to keep hogging the responses here, but is there any type of grip arrangement near the center of the shaft? Just to be clear in some of my comments in my first post, The end cap and the lance point do not appear to me to have been made for a steel shaft lance in that they seem to be made to crimp a wooden or bamboo shaft. I am very familiar with the steel type set up and these are not those.....but are earlier.

I also know that the British were importing WKC blades for their army in the 1850s and later, but these will have British crown over number inspector stamps and broad arrow stamps.

I think that the best way to determine if this is German military is to check carefully for German inspector stamps.

[Adler 1]

The Belgian lancers still used bamboo lances in 1914...

Adler 1

[ww1czechlegion]

I believe this is a photo of the full length of the lance in question.

[Johnny R]

Yes that is the one. It is for sale near where I live. They plan to cut the metal parts off to mail it so I will try to save it.

The Germans switched to rolled steel in 1893. The lance is about 12 feet or +-3.5 meters.

[ww1czechlegion]

It is entirely possible if you buy it, that you can tie it onto the passenger side of your car, even in the winter time. Use the passenger side mirror as part of the support. You can use a thinner piece of strap metal to make a bracket to hold another section of the lance, and support it from the top of your almost closed window. If you have a ski or bike rack for the top of your car, that would work as well. If you drive a pickup truck, that's your best option.

It would be a real shame to see the ends cut off this original lance in order to have it mailed, instead of figuring a way to transport it yourself by car or pickup truck.

Best Regards,

Alan

[Johnny R]

I do not think you understood me, the seller said they would cut the ends off not me. I have a truck and an SUV, if I bid I would go pick it up. That said, I am not sure it is German. I spoke to a WWI British collector who said it is much longer than 19th Century and WWI era British lances etc.

[ww1czechlegion]

You're correct, I hadn't understood your statement about the seller cutting the ends off for shipment. I made the mistake of assuming that you wouldn't be able to transport it yourself. Sorry for that misunderstanding. Was just trying to be helpful in case you didn't own an SUV or pickup truck.

Best Regards,

Alan

[Johnny R]

No, I would never do that to a historical item although sadly many other people probably would

[101combatvet]

Seems odd to me that they would use bamboo over something like Norwegian Fir or something similar. I would expect better quality from the Germans but perhaps it is German, I can't really make out the markings. Interesting item for sure.

[Chip M]

The Prussians never had a bamboo lance. The M1869 (and the prior model) lance was wood with steel tip and end piece, but the metal parts did not look like the ones on this lance. The all metal lance was authorized in 1890. The Bavarians had their own pattern lance, but again, it was not like this one.

I think I would agree with phild that this is an export lance with parts supplied by WKC.

Chip