1914 Iron Cross

[mp409mm]

Found this award certificate for a 1914 iron cross, Any idea, for what reason, it was awarded in 1921 ?
Thanks
Alf.

[Brian L.]

Based on the stamp, he probably served in Freikorps Münsterland in 1919 and then was in the Reichswehr-Brigade 7 and then Reichswehr-Brigade 31. Then he became part of Reichswehr Artillerieführer VI (i.e. Military District VI) in Münster / Westfalen.

The document is signed by General der Infanterie Paul Hasse who commanded Artillerieführer VI from Oct. 1, 1921 until Sept. 30, 1923.

I do not believe this is a retroactive award for WWI, but for post-war service in the Freikorps. I have Freikorps document groups in my collection that include post-war EKII awards and it's clear that they were for Freikorps service.

As an aside, EKs were awarded up to the end of 1924.

[streptile]

I don't think that any EK2 documents specifically state the action for which the award was made, unless it's added to the reverse, but the official awarding period of EKs was still open in 1921.

[schoenwurf]

Yes this was not unusual. I also have a few Besitzzeugnisse for EKs awarded in 1919, 1920...

[mp409mm]

Based on the stamp, he probably served in Freikorps Münsterland in 1919 and then was in the Reichswehr-Brigade 7 and then Reichswehr-Brigade 31. Then he became part of Reichswehr Artillerieführer VI (i.e. Military District VI) in Münster / Westfalen.

The document is signed by General der Infanterie Paul Hasse who commanded Artillerieführer VI from Oct. 1, 1921 until Sept. 30, 1923.

I do not believe this is a retroactive award for WWI, but for post-war service in the Freikorps. I have Freikorps document groups in my collection that include post-war EKII awards and it's clear that they were for Freikorps service.

As an aside, EKs were awarded up to the end of 1924.

Wow that is some information from one document
Thank You bolewts58

Alf.

[mp409mm]

I don't think that any EK2 documents specifically state the action for which the award was made, unless it's added to the reverse, but the official awarding period of EKs was still open in 1921.

Yes this was not unusual. I also have a few Besitzzeugnisse for EKs awarded in 1919, 1920...

Thank You Streptile and schoenwurf for input.
Is it the normal for the writing the action why the Ek was awarded on the back of the certificate, or it was one off?
So this certificate can't be awarded for action in the war.
Thank you all
Alf.

[streptile]

You guys who can really "read" an EK2 document always impress me too.

Is it the normal for the writing the action why the Ek was awarded on the back of the certificate, or it was one off?

It's not normal but it happened. More usually you see this with 1939 EK documents, but even these are rare.

[mp409mm]

You guys who can really "read" an EK2 document always impress me too.



It's not normal but it happened. More usually you see this with 1939 EK documents, but even these are rare.

Thank You streptile for your reply.
Regards
Alf.

[Brian L.]

You guys who can really "read" an EK2 document always impress me too.

For me it's a bit of reverse detective work and extrapolation to figure out where this guy was and how he ended up with the EK.

His name and rank are a bit difficult to read. In looking at it again, I read it as, "Herrn Major Sonnenlang", meaning he was an officer, which if correct might mean that this is after all, a WWI retro-active award, maybe to replace a temporary field document. According to the document it was awarded for bravery in the face of the enemy (für Tapferkeit vor den Feinde) which one usually finds on the earlier EK docs from 1914-16 before they started to be given out just for showing up.

It's hard to know for sure without his other documents.

[mp409mm]

For me it's a bit of reverse detective work and extrapolation to figure out where this guy was and how he ended up with the EK.

His name and rank are a bit difficult to read. I read it as, "Herrn Major Sonnenlang, meaning he was an officer, which if correct might mean that this is afterall, a retro-active award, maybe to replace a temporary field document.

This is the German text:
Besitzzeugnis zum EK 2.Klasse 1914 des Robert Sonnenberg verliehen am 28.11.1921 (!!!) , schöner Vordruckdes Artillerie Führer VI, anbei die Urkunde zum Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer

This is the bing translation from the German text:

Possession document for EK 2nd class in 1914 of Robert Sonnenberg awarded on 11.28.1921 (!!!) , Beautiful Vordruckdes artillery leader VI, enclose the certificate to Cross of Honour for Front Fighters

Regards
Alf.

[Brian L.]

Sonnenberg is correct. But, that's not Robert on the EK doc. I'm pretty sure it says Major. Do you have another document with his first name on it?

The 'Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer' is the Hindenburg Cross from 1934 - nothing to do with this doc.

[mp409mm]

Sonnenberg is correct. But, that's not Robert on the EK doc. I'm pretty sure it says Major. Do you have another document with his first name on it?

The 'Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer' is the Hindenburg Cross from 1934 - nothing to do with this doc.

Yes her it is :
thanks
Alf.

[schoenwurf]

The EK2 was awarded in 1921 "Fuer Tapferkeit vor dem Feinde", ie for his action against the ennemy, so necessarily prior to November 11, 1918

According to the Frontkaempfer diploma, he was a disabled person in 1934. Consequence of the war ?
Who knows

[Brian L.]

The EK2 was awarded in 1921 "Fuer Tapferkeit vor dem Feinde", ie for his action against the ennemy, so necessarily prior to November 11, 1918

According to the Frontkaempfer diploma, he was a disabled person in 1934. Consequence of the war ?
Who knows

agree. Had the Frontkämpfer document been shown in the beginning, I wouldn't have wasted forum space with all that information about Freikorps service. It's very possible that he was in hospital recovering from his wounds and only received his EK in 1921 for his WWI service. The term "Invaliden" would have only been used on the Frontkämpfer document if his disability was the result of military service.

[Brian R]

Great thread. I'm not sure I have ever seen the invalid reference on a Honor Cross document. That's a great hint to use for these post-war dated EK awards.

Iron Cross award documents are so much fun to research. The historical significance of one piece of paper can be extraordinary. Definitely visit Chris B's awesome site if you haven't at http://kaiserscross.com/

As for documents with awardee details, or explanations as to how the EK was earned, they are quite uncommon. They seem especially rare among WWI EK docs and the ones I have seen are usually brief and somewhat generic. In WWII it was done more often as Trevor says, but it was still quite rare. For a few interesting examples, check this... http://kleinekillpress.com/iron-cros...uumlndung.html

For really great stories about EK winners, nothing beats Vorschlagslisten. These are the forms used by lower commands to recommend a soldier for the award and usually have very specific information about actions and acts of bravery. These are really rare and its reasonable to believe the process was simplified (and maybe even skipped at times) in both wars as the amount of EKs bestowed ran into the millions.