Someone got lucky

[Les]

and someone got hosed

This came from an auction of an unclaimed item in a safety deposit box. What happened? Did the owner die, and his family/estate not know about it? Or, was the owner hospitalized or somehow not able to respond to letters advising him to pay his deposit box fees? Someone may have made out on the auction, but the owner or his family lost out in a major way. That could happen to many of us if our families don't know where we have things. Based on the auction site photos (two) and the description saying it is "yellow gold" and weight,, this may be one of the early war hollow gold Wagners. I say "may" because without actually holding it in hand, it may be a well-made copy and there are some cast and electro-formed copies floating around that look convincing until seen with a good jewellers glass. Here's a little food for thought. Most deposit-box, storage area auction sales are final. That means if you buy it, whether it is real or a good copy, you are probably "s.o.l." if you want your money back. If it's stolen, then deposited in a bank deposit box and sold through a auction as this piece was, the owner can still get it back if it's been reported as stolen property prior to the auction date. Les

[blind pew]

This came from an auction of an unclaimed item in a safety deposit box. What happened? Did the owner die, and his family/estate not know about it? Or, was the owner hospitalized or somehow not able to respond to letters advising him to pay his deposit box fees? Someone may have made out on the auction, but the owner or his family lost out in a major way. That could happen to many of us if our families don't know where we have things. Based on the auction site photos (two) and the description saying it is "yellow gold" and weight,, this may be one of the early war hollow gold Wagners. I say "may" because without actually holding it in hand, it may be a well-made copy and there are some cast and electro-formed copies floating around that look convincing until seen with a good jewellers glass. Here's a little food for thought. Most deposit-box, storage area auction sales are final. That means if you buy it, whether it is real or a good copy, you are probably "s.o.l." if you want your money back. If it's stolen, then deposited in a bank deposit box and sold through a auction as this piece was, the owner can still get it back if it's been reported as stolen property prior to the auction date. Les

Fake oaks and a good cross seems odd. It appears as though there is a weep hole on the photo. However, the cross seems to show no wear or damage at all, which is odd.I hope that the cross is good.

[Johnny R]

The oak leaves look a lot like a WWII Knights cross set.

[streptile]

From what I can see the oaks are good (as is the cross) and correct for the PLM. Of course this is subject to an in-hand inspection as Les says. But there are no red flags from this photo about either piece.

Lewjian, in the future, if you see a piece like that and you can't go for it yourself, why not PM another WAFer who might be interested? Hint hint

[lewjian]

I did try to bring it to my own possession at higher cost, however I was too late to realize the auctioner set bid limit of 1000$ to new customers, in the last minute I managed to convince them that I should have higher credits and raised the limit to 3000$, higher than that it requires approval from banks.
This is really a life time opportunity but gone now

[HAF]

so the oak leaves are ww2?

[lewjian]

so the oak leaves are ww2?

I don't think so, that's how a ww1 oak leave should look like, but I'm not experienced enough to tell if the leaves are good or not.
I don't count on the chance of having them a period set, you never know what's the story behind it and what an old collector could do to his pieces. So I would look at them as two individule items, may be three if you count the ribbon in.

[streptile]

The oakleaves look period WWI to me.

[blind pew]

From what I can see the oaks are good (as is the cross) and correct for the PLM. Of course this is subject to an in-hand inspection as Les says. But there are no red flags from this photo about either piece.

Lewjian, in the future, if you see a piece like that and you can't go for it yourself, why not PM another WAFer who might be interested? Hint hint

I stand corrected about the oaks- thank you. The cross does look good- what a nice opportunity for the buyer!

[Johnny R]

I know very little about WWI items but the oak leaves are very similar to a second award for the WWII knights cross. Seeing an image of the back would be helpful but I doubt we will get to see more images.

[streptile]

Here are the oakleaves that I believe the PLM is wearing (© medalnet):

[Don D.]

Fake for some, original for others. Knowing what you are looking at can mean the difference between getting a bargin of a lifetime or passing it up.

[Wild Card]

Lewjian, in the future, if you see a piece like that and you can't go for it yourself, why not PM another WAFer who might be interested? Hint hint

What my friend streptile is saying here is that you be sure to contact Wild Card.

[blind pew]

What my friend streptile is saying here is that you be sure to contact Wild Card.

One cannot know about every auction available. I have a fairly "broad net" cast over major auction sites that alerts me to anything "PLM", "Pour Le Merite", or "Blue Max".

That being said, I probably miss quite a few opportunities. Further, most of those items offered by my "alerts" are fake. Further, those that are authentic pieces have no wear or any shred of provenance to suggest that the piece was actually awarded (worn). I really do not like a Pour Le Merite with no wear at all- how the hell could one NOT DAMAGE a PLM if it was actually worn????

One can only do what one can do and cngratulate those who come across nice pieces at bargain price. You cannot own everything you desire, nor would you ultimtely like to do so if able. That is why we have a collecting community, in which one can share information among other owners and congratulate them on nice acquisitions.

I like such tales.

It is good to keep in mind as well that there are probably only 300 or so authentic WW1 pour le merites actually still in existence. Given this, the liklihood of an authentic example showing up at a pawn shop, low volume auction, or ebay is very low (although not zero). Contrast this with the RK of ww2- there were over 13 fold awarded and probably many more wearers copies ("L" series) in circulation.

Think about the odds

[sgtdorango]

Wow.....how much would one of these badboys fetch full retail if 100% original?.....mike