Meybauer Commemorative Flyer badge (pictures now!)

[Hagrid]

Hello together - Sorry for this second attempt!
I do have here a "Flieger-Erinnerungs-Abzeichen" made by Meybauer and would like to have some qualified opinions about several details that bother me (a little bit )
The overall design is in accordance with literature and sources of other forums:
Meybauer all the way, but no makers mark.
Consists of silvered metal, measures 72 X 46 mm (seems ok) and weights 24.6 g (seems too heavy?).

The questionmarks for me, besides the weight, are the following:

- the head of the eagle looks somewhat molten with no details, although even the finest structures of leaves and landscape/buildings are visible (wear should affect more than one spot, or am I wrong?)
- the little "pimples" (see red circles) look like the usual cast artefacts - is there a natural explanation for it?
- the upper weephole is below the hinge-well instead of above as I have seen in all Meybauer badges - is this a known variety?
- the "hole" in the side puzzles me completely - would the "Meybauer quality-control" have let this pass? Why a hole anyway - the rim of the punched-out one-piece badge would go all the way around - or wouldn´t it ?

I hope, the pics are sufficient for your judgement - they´re the only ones I have.
Please share your knowledge with me an let us all have answers to these questions!
Thanks in advance for vivid input
Hagrid

(@Mod- please delete the first threat containing no visible pictures... Thank you so much!)

[Hagrid]

Ok-Folks!
Is there anything wrong with the post? ( f. e. still no pics...) Or is there no expertise around, regarding this issue?
Still hoping for something substantial -good or no good...
Even OPINIONS wellcome.
Greetz
Hagrid

[pzrwest]

I can see the pictures,

[gregM]

There is no problem with your post. I think that problem is that only a very
few (2 or 3) people on this forum will have any real expertise with this piece
and they may not have seen it yet.

I don't claim to have any knowledge at all in this area except to say that the
shape of the pin is correct and the well looks correct but to me the body of
the piece looks cast. But that is only my very uneducated opinion.

[pzrwest]

I agree the body of the badge appears to be a cast one, cast in a silicone mold that had some tiny air bubbles in the mold

[Hagrid]

Thank you for your evaluation!

[Ferg 1]

Whilst I agree that the ' pimples' are a little strange on the front detail there are details that are subtle and only characteristic to Meybauer. For instance , the hinge block is chamfered on the top outer edges which is almost always seen on this makers badges, also the ' etchy' finish most obvious on the reverse is again typical Meybauer. The gaps you refer to on the edges are common on this makers badges, most of my Meybauers two piece badges have gaps. The edges of these badges tend to be polished or burnished too. These are all traits of the Meybauer outlet , features that I find difficult to believe a forger would take on board. Certainly some questions but I would feel that the badge has potential .Ferg

[Hagrid]

Ferg - thank you for your valuable input, which is highly appreciated!
In comparison to other Meybauer-pieces (from pictures in books and forums) I see
identical tiny details (f.e. the inside structures of the utmost right window of the upper building or the single feather strains of the eagle) which are hardly to be duplicated by a cast copy.
On the other hand some more obvious features are nearly nonpresent, like the face of the eagle or the inside lower left of the tie. The crowns shape is asymmetrical, best to be seen from the rear side. All this, together with the little castpearl-like structures (the more you look for them, the more pop up...), screams "fake" to the most onlookers.
I WANT this one to be real, but most people say "cast" (or maybe "Galvano"), judging the pictures.
But the measures seem to be right and when struck with some metallic device it rings a clear "ping"....
If only there were not these little "pimples" !
(A reasonable explanation for their existence would do as well...)
Strange indeed.
Greetz
Hagrid

[Hagrid]

To whom it may be of interest:

The pictures of this badge were presented to Weitze, the well known Hamburg dealer, and to Carsten Baldes, the author of the book about imperial flight badges.

Both of them provided an offer to buy this piece right away!

Ferg - your esteemed opinion has been proven right (just as one would expect ) and my concerns about the originality of the badge obviously were pointless!

Thank you all for your contributions!

Regards
Hagrid

[Ferg 1]

Thanks Hagrid, I thought it had potential ! Ferg

[AFF96]

If Ferg & Carsten liked it then you can certainly feel good about the piece. For me anyway Ferg & Carsten are to "go to" experts I feel absolutely most comfortable with for Imperial air-crew pieces.
Congrats!

[Rich G]

I don't know much about these and I bow to those with superior knowledge and experience but looking the obverse I would have put this one down to a cast repro. Can anyone explain why it looks like that?
Rich

[Ferg 1]

All I can say is it seems to fill all the criteria expected of a badge by this maker including some very subtle traits that are singular only to Meybauer. This makers soldering was at times ,for want of a better phrase, a little haphazard ,gaps etc... I can only think that these 'pips' are in fact solder bleed or spatter,Ihave seen this effect from time to time ,normally on the reverse around the hinge ,catch etc. I still stand by my opinion that it is good.Ferg

[90th Light]

I don't know much about these and I bow to those with superior knowledge and experience but looking the obverse I would have put this one down to a cast repro. Can anyone explain why it looks like that?
Rich

The matter was discussed in depth on this thread post number 43 to post number 127 inclusive. The quote below is taken from post number 54;

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=Boat

Carsten also commented that Meybauer badges may in fact be some sort of cast type in some cases and he has noticed this more than once on perfectly good Imperial pilot and aircrew badges by them. I have to say that I too agree with Carsten on this point and this has also been my observation.

When one makes something out of solid nickel or solid bronze then the lost wax type method is not uncommon and often used. The important point here between a copy and an original is size and weight. Factory made badges will always be a certain size/ weight where as a copy will be usually about 10% smaller all round. All that happens is that the fakers just make a lost wax copy of something which was originally made using lost wax or multiple casting.

Did you look at the example on "emedals" item GEM606 which also shows signs of casting ?

Best regards, Chris

Hopefully this will throw some light on the matter if not explain the cast-quality of "Meybauer" badges,

Chris

p.s. I would be more than happy to have the badge that started this thread in my collection

[Rich G]

Chris
Many thanks for providing that link. The pitting I can understand but the raised blobs on this badge make no sense unless they are part of the die and every one of them have them. Must search to see if there are more examples to check out.
Rich