Medal Bar Question - Award Ranking

[gloriousfifth]

Happy New Year everyone!

I know that there is a very definite order that was followed when higher awards were worn, but this medal bar I have (ribbons only) is rather confusing. As you face it, reading from left to right:

- Prussian Order of the Red Eagle;
- SaxonMilitary Order of St Henry, Knight;
- Prussian Order of the Crown;
- Prussian Long and Devoted Officer Decoration;
- German Empire Colonial Campaign Medal;
- 1897 Kaiser Wilhelm Anniversary Medal.

I think this bar is legit. All of the ribbons are old/faded and don't fluoresce under UV. As I discuss below, the placement of the Saxon order puzzles me, though.

My questions:

1. Isn't the Order of the Crown primarily a civil/diplomatic order? What is it doing mixed in with the Red Eagle and St Henry, which I thought were military?

2. What is a Saxon order doing sandwhiched in between two Prussian orders?

3. Hypothetically, if this bar were earlier, from the Franco-Prussian War, would it be possible for the the owner to qualify for an Iron Cross? Does the EK replace the Red Eagle in such a case?

My thanks in advance to whoever takes up my questions.

Cheers,

Laurie

[stogieman]

because.........

......... It's not a Saxon St. Henry Order. It's a Prussian Verdienstkreuz in gold or silver.... The ribbon is very similar to the St. Henry.
If your bar was a Saxon Bar, the St. Henry would have to be in 1. place.

So, your questions:
1. Red Eagle is a Civil Order that under auspicious circumstance in war would be awarded with swords and on the "black/white" "war ribbon".
2. See above
3. EK does not "replace" a Red Eagle, or anything else. But would be awarded for specific acts of bravery and worn in 1. place on the bar. If the owner of this bar had been awarded one, it would be mounted there already. Sounds like a typical Prussian Beamter/Civil Servant/Military Rear Echelon type combination to me.

Photos would be great!

[Daniel Krause]

a pic would be helpful

You can send it to me by eMail....or become an Association member.

Best regards

Daniel

[gloriousfifth]

a pic would be helpful

You can send it to me by eMail....or become an Association member.

Best regards

Daniel

Hi Daniel,

Thank you for the offer. I would send you an email. but I don't have your email address.

Cheers.

Laurie

[Daniel Krause]

Daniel-Krause-maz@gmx.de

Best regards

Daniel

[gloriousfifth]

......... It's not a Saxon St. Henry Order. It's a Prussian Verdienstkreuz in gold or silver.... The ribbon is very similar to the St. Henry.
If your bar was a Saxon Bar, the St. Henry would have to be in 1. place.

Hi Stogieman,

Thanks for your help.

How do we resolve the Verdienstkreuz sandwiched in between the Red Eagle and the Crown Orders? I would expect the two Orders to have precedence.

Cheers,

Laurie

[gloriousfifth]

Verdeinstkreuz/Merit Cross

Daniel, Stogieman,

Thank you for your coaching, but I am still in a bit of a muddle as I can't figure out which Verdeinstkreuz you are referring to. I gather it is not the Mannschafft's PLM, but somethingelse that I haven't seen before.

I would be grateful if you would post a picture of the medal you are referring to.

Cheers,

Laurie

[Daniel Krause]

Hi Laurie,

here is one borrowed from Helmut Weitze´s website.

Best regards

Daniel

[stogieman]

Yep.......

That is the cross I meant, thanks Daniel, I could not find a photo.

This one: "Mannschafft's PLM,"

Would be actually: Goldenes Militär Verdienst Kreuz
And would be on the black/white war ribbon and impossible based on the precedence. You'd have 2 "war ribbons" in first place. I have seen this pair mounted both ways, as an aside.... with the EK first, with the GMVK first.

[gloriousfifth]

That is the cross I meant, thanks Daniel, I could not find a photo.

This one: "Mannschafft's PLM,"

Would be actually: Goldenes Militär Verdienst Kreuz
And would be on the black/white war ribbon and impossible based on the precedence. You'd have 2 "war ribbons" in first place. I have seen this pair mounted both ways, as an aside.... with the EK first, with the GMVK first.

Dear Daniel and Stogieman,

Thank you for furthering my education. It seems that I will have my work cut out for me filling all of the places on that ribbon.

Cheers,

Laurie