EK I 1914 (800) screw back for opinion?

[Green]

Hello everyone,

I know 1914 EKs can be quite tricky and there are good fakes out there………!
Specially the screw back versions, with easy to replace parts (screw and back plate)!
I bought this screw back cross yesterday on a military market and I'd like to hear your opinion on this screw back EK1…..?

There is also a little hole on the beading, could it be a damage from a bullet fragment, or just corrosion?

Best regards,

Green

[Green]

Damage from a bullet fragment, or just corrosion?

[ATTACH]3125477[/ATTACH]
Damage from a bullet fragment, or just corrosion?
[ATTACH]3125478[/ATTACH]
Disc and screw

[gregM]

Interesting cross.

I believe that the cross is good. However the patina on the parts looks
off to me. The box that the 800 stamp on the cross is almost black
while the numbers remain shiney. The black looks forced to me.
-Also the very linear look to the patina on the backplate seems odd to me.

Possibly a cross that was polished up at one time. Or bad parts with a
fake patina applied to them.

Just my uneducated opinion here. Lets see what the others have to say.

[Green]

Interesting cross.

I believe that the cross is good. However the patina on the parts looks
off to me. The box that the 800 stamp on the cross is almost black
while the numbers remain shiney. The black looks forced to me.
-Also the very linear look to the patina on the backplate seems odd to me.

Possibly a cross that was polished up at one time. Or bad parts with a
fake patina applied to them.

Just my uneducated opinion here. Lets see what the others have to say.

Thank you, appreciate your sharp observations!

I also think it was polished. I compare the two marks and it seems to me they are the same?

EK I WWII 800 mark on the cross forum 1.jpg
EK I WWII 800 mark on the cross


EK I WWII Double 800 mark on disc forum 2.jpg
EK I WWII double 800 mark on the disc

Best regards,
Green

[Montgomery Burns]

if I would get such a cross ,my first concern would be to be sure its real silver .

as the 800 mark indicate ..

by the look and parts i would say its a 1930's /WW2 replacement cross ..

most crosses of that era where made of buntmetal and other silver replacement metals ...

looking at this cross ,,,and how it looks patina wize ,,,I would test it on silver for sure ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first thing .


if it is silver ,,

you got a od but ,,desirable cross for the 1920/to WW2 collector .

regards kay

[Green]

if I would get such a cross ,my first concern would be to be sure its real silver .

as the 800 mark indicate ..

by the look and parts i would say its a 1930's /WW2 replacement cross ..

most crosses of that era where made of buntmetal and other silver replacement metals ...

looking at this cross ,,,and how it looks patina wize ,,,I would test it on silver for sure ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,first thing .


if it is silver ,,

you got a od but ,,desirable cross for the 1920/to WW2 collector .

regards kay

Is there an easy way to test it........without damaging the cross?

You have a point, it even could be, they put the mark later on the cross.... but why bother? Would it ingrease the value much?

I don´t buy mine WWI (oké a lot of replacement WWII) crosses from ebay, most of them on the market. I noticed that a lot of the collectors and sellers never look to the marks, specially not on the Ek II´s.

I see a trend by collectors..... like me.....crosses with a silvermark! I even bought yesterday a EK II with a 500 mark!

Forgive me mine bad English, but I do my best!

Best regards,

Green

[Montgomery Burns]

you may not know many collectors who are interested in the marking of crosses .

but here on WAF,,, (if marked) ,, its very important ,,,,,and looked fore carefully.

a science on it self so to speak ,,,,

AND a value changing factor ,, if the right or wrong mark is found a price can explode or implode .


to the test ,,, chemical testing is so far almost not damaging to the cross ..( done right )

a regular jeweler in you town should have such testing sets ..

regards kay

[Green]

Silver [800] test jeweler

to the test ,,, chemical testing is so far almost not damaging to the cross ..( done right )

a regular jeweler in you town should have such testing sets ..

regards kay[/QUOTE]

Silver test
Today I went to the jeweler, to have carried out a silver test on the disc for his [800] silver content. Unfortunately he had to take a small piece of material away, from the back of the disc...........yes... that hearts! But I see it as a small contribution to knowledge on this forum!
He said the color of the chemical reaction was red/brown, thats indicates its real silver. He said he also compare the chemical drops it with a piece of a real silver chain to be sure!

Silver 800 test on disc EK I WWI Forum I.jpg

I also find a site with old German Silver Hallmarks:

http://www.925-1000.dk/Fgerman_marks_a1884.html


With regards,

Green

[Montgomery Burns]

well well ,,normally a special stone is used ,,scratch the test item softly over it and drop the chemical on to the the stone ...

if you do not have that,,, the chemical can be dropped on tho the disk after cleaning it ,,,same result ..only you don't know if it is silver plating or not .

I must say sadly ,,,,your jeweler used a rough method ,,, visible afterwards ..

not so good ...as done right,,,,,the process is invisible to the naked aye

but it is silver for sure ...that is good news ,and his method proves that it is silver not only silver plated .

next time you go there and tell the guy how to do it ,,here a picture of the stone .

[streptile]

Hi Green,

Sorry but I do not believe this EK1 is original. The type is not known, the [800] stamp is known on other fakes, and a specific seller on eBay sells many EKs with odd attachments and engravings, all of which are Frankenstein EKs. I believe yours to be a Frankensteined EK2.

[streptile]

,,,the chemical can be dropped on tho the dick after cleaning it ,,,

ouch.

[Montgomery Burns]

ouch.

lets not hope he actually tries it

[Montgomery Burns]

Hi Green,

Sorry but I do not believe this EK1 is original. The type is not known, the [800] stamp is known on other fakes, and a specific seller on eBay sells many EKs with odd attachments and engravings, all of which are Frankenstein EKs. I believe yours to be a Frankensteined EK2.

well you make me curious ,,,if this is a frankenstein

I wonder what the actual signs and tell tell tale of such cross are ..

for me its a 1930's 1914 replacement cross all the way ,,

how you make such a assessment ?


regards kay

[Green]

Hi Streptile,

At first.....I didn´t try it!

I also wonder what the actual signs and tell tell tale of such cross are ?

Now I have "to prove", it is a real one.....a newby against an expert!
No, just kidding, I would be very disapointed if you were right, I believed it was a nice, beautifull and fine jeweler made cross! But I am getting older... may be better glasses?

I lay myself down.....after trying:

You say "The type is not known" .....look to the Junker 1914 screwback?

You say " even an Frankenstein EK II".....what a lot of work for a real silver piece?
I seriously didn´t pay to much for the cross!

Best regards,

Green

[streptile]

Evening Green,

The cross is not a known type. The [800] mark is known to me only on fakes. The cross looks like a fake to me. A lot of work goes into fake EK1s, so the workmanship is no argument in its favor. There is an ebay seller who sells Frankensteins like this one all the time. My opinion is that the cross is fake, and I stick with it.

Sorry friend