Paderborner Infanterie

[Glenn2438]

I have a little conundrum regarding two Prussian infantry regiments:

7. Lothringisches Nr. 158
8. Lothringisches Nr. 159

Both were formed in 1897 from formed "half" battalions of Prussian (Westphalian) regiments and their later constituted third battalions were also from formed companies of Prussian (Westphalian) regiments. Both were stationed in Westphalia: 158 in Paderborn and 159 in Mülheim an der Ruhr as part of the 79th Infantry Brigade (Paderborn, then Wesel). As far as I can ascertain they were recruited and manned by Westphalian soldiers. Why then the appelation "Lothringisches"??

Regards
Glenn

[Chip M]

An interesting question.

Glenn,

I thought that the answer might be in Pietsch, so I reread the formations history chapter, but it gave the same information that you have here and nothing further. I will see if there is any pertinent information in Zeitschrift für Heereskunde. Too bad Klietmann and Major von Stein are not with us any more. I would think they could get to the bottom of this.

Best regards,
Chip

[Glenn2438]

Recruiting Districts

Hi Chip,

Too bad Klietmann and Major von Stein are not with us any more

Indeed!

As a general rule regiments of the Prussian and for that matter other contingents were recruited from and stationed within their individual corps and specifically brigade recruiting areas (Landwehrbezirk).

The most obvious exception regarding garrisons were those Prussian/Bavarian/Saxon etc units stationed in Alsace-Lorraine and particularly Metz from 1871 onwards although these were recruited within their original states.

It appears that all the other Lothringisches regiments were recruited and garrisoned in Alsace-Lorraine which is why I find these two Westphalian regiments rather oddly named.

As an afternote to my original post, after 79 Brigade moved to Wesel in 1912, the two regiments transfered to 25 & 28 Infantry Brigades respectively - still components of the Westphalian VII Corps.

Regards
Glenn

[Bob Lembke]

Outsiders serving in Alsace/Lorraine

Guys; You guys know this stuff better than I do, in my opinion, but I have been poking about in my materials looking at men and units serving in these newly-acquired areas, and it seems that a good deal, maybe half, of the units were from outside the area. I can see several reasons for this. Also, a lot of the officers in units that were nominally Alsace/Lorraine units were from places like Leipzig and Breslau, and when they served their two years and became "d. Reserve" they were living back in, say, Posen, but still carried on the reserve rolls of their western-based units. When they were transferred to the Landwehr some years later then they were associated with Landwehr formations in their home area.

Bob Lembke

[Glenn2438]

Einjähriger

Hi Bob,

if it were just a matter of one year volunteers it would not be a problem. An Einjähriger could generally choose his regiment within his state even outside his own corps recruiting district. And again regular commissioned officers pretty much selected their original regiment according to circumstances, means and preference. Consequently a young officer from East Prussia could well end up being commissioned in a regiment whose soldiers were recruited from the Rhineland.

You are correct that while an officer elected to remain in the reserve he stayed on the books of his parent regiment. However when he transfered to the Landwehr he would normally then be carried on the rolls of the Landwehr bezirk in which he was permanently domiciled.

Regards
Glenn

[Glenn2438]

Paderborner-Infanterie

Although still not to the bottom of this one I came across an interesting little paragraph in a recently acquired book titled Soldaten in Westfalen und am Niederrhein which is an overview of the history of the units of the prussian VII Corps:

The following announcement was made in the Westphalian press in the autumn of 1915:

"Paderborn, 14 October. Our Infantry Regiment 158, which was recently commended in the daily bulletin of the High Command, carried until now the designation Lothringisches. This supplementary title is now by All Highest Cabinet Order changed to Westfälisches".

However whether this actually happened in practice is unclear. The published regimental history in 1939 was still titled as the history of the 7. Lothringisches.

Conjecture on my part: Although formed from Westphalian personnel. the long term aspiration would have been to recruit eventually from the populace of Lorraine?

Regards
Glenn

[Chris Boonzaier]

In 1917 they had 7. Lothringisches Infanterie Regiment Nr. 158 printed on their EK docs if thats any help.

[Glenn2438]

Name Change

Hi Chris,

thanks. I don't think the name change was ever effected. The press report I believe just accurately reflects the true composition of the regiment (and 159), that they were in the main manned by Westphalian personnel.

Regards
Glenn

[ynot]

Hello Glenn,

I don't know if this is any use to you but, there is a memorial to a Lothring Regt. on the wall of Sparrenburg castle in Bielefeld. It was more than likely erected in the 1920s.

I always wondered what it was doing there and now I know.

Tony