Help with identifying these Orders

[Jesse]

This is the least elitist forum you will find, if you post something, people will comment. It actually has the nicest and most helpful person I have ever come across on forums such as these, GregM.

My collector comrade (does that work?) from Bangkok is a knowledgeable and forthright commentator. He some times comes across a little abrasive, but I am sure everyone here values his significant knowledge and experience, I know I do.

I apologise if you thought I was being rude with my comment, I just wondered how you ordered the copies and had them made up with out knowing what they were. I agree with Bolewts58, I would rather have an original set of something, but seeing that I am very unlikely to ever afford some of those original awards, I see no problem with having something like that made up. I would do it myself if I could find versions that were of very good quality.

Welcome, post more, learn like the rest of us.

Jesse

[Wild Card]

Lampwick,

With reference to your framed bars in post #12. Personally, I like it - very colorful and decorative; and as such, would gladly hang it on the wall in my office. As a matter of fact, some years ago, I bought (at an appropriate price) a medal bar which was made up of copies with that purpose in mind.

I do hope that you will not be deterred from delving deeper into the world of studying and collecting orders and decorations - I will spare you from a long presentation/lecture on it’s virtues.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[streptile]

I hope you stick around too.

My advice would be to ignore the judgments, collect what you love, and learn what you can. A lot of us got started because we liked the way something looked, and bought a copy of it because we couldn't afford the original.

[Lampwick]

Thank you for the encouraging replies but I'm a bit deflated now that I learn that what I thought were nice replicas are a load of junk. It's rather taken the yen for Imperial stuff from me. I'll stick to daggers from now on.

[Brian L.]

Thank you for the encouraging replies but I'm a bit deflated now that I learn that what I thought were nice replicas are a load of junk. It's rather taken the yen for Imperial stuff from me. I'll stick to daggers from now on.

Firstly, I'm pretty well the only one who took exception to your bars and Jesse is right, I can be abrasive. You have lots of support. So, ignore me and go with the majority.

Secondly, it's my experience at least in collecting militaria for a long time that one has to develop pretty thick skin. The exchange here has been light weight and civilized. You should try posting on one of the German forums if you want to experience ruthless, elitist critics with their daggers out.

[pzrwest]

I feel that replicas do have a place in the collecting field. One is that one can have a nice display piece of a high priced original without mortgaging the family home, for example a repro PLM cross. I have one coming just because I like the look of the cross. But that is just my personal view.

[Konigtiger]

Thank you for the encouraging replies but I'm a bit deflated now that I learn that what I thought were nice replicas are a load of junk. It's rather taken the yen for Imperial stuff from me. I'll stick to daggers from now on.

I think some of the criticism stems from the fact that any officer wearing a bar like one of these in 1914-1918 would have been shot dead on the spot as an obvious imposter.

Replica bars, made up either to the collector's taste or mimicking that of a famous personality (Richtofen being the most famous example) are generally accepted as part of collecting. However, bars like these, which have awards in the wrong order, on the wrong ribbons and featuring impossible combinations (such as awards given to different ranks).

Don't be discouraged. If this is what you enjoy, all I suggest is that you find a photograph of one of the generals of the period and build a replica of that bar. The members here (including myself) would be happy to give you ideas and help in pointing out the correct ribbons, etc...

[Brian L.]

Replica bars, made up either to the collector's taste or mimicking that of a famous personality (Richtofen being the most famous example) are generally accepted as part of collecting.

Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, when orders (at least the more common ones) were much more modestly priced, it was a practice to make up bars with genuine orders and decorations. I knew several collectors back then who had bars made up from single orders and decorations, or even modified existing bars to match document groups in their collections. I remember at the Max and SOS in the late 80s, a couple of German dealers who offered this service and I also knew a few skilled collectors who did it themselves.

Genuine, but anonymous bars were only valued for their individual medals back then. I was one of the few Imperial German collectors who collected bars at the time. Even then, I went out of my way to ensure provenance because I didn't want re-constructed bars in my collection, despite it not bothering many other collectors. Afterall, it was (and still is) quite common and accepted among British medal collectors to re-mount medals. So, I think the same thinking transferred over to Imperial German, at the time.

Unfortunately, now that bars are highly valued, a lot of those 30 and 40-year old bars made to order have likely been accepted into subsequent collections as period constructions, especially when accompanied by documents.

At least in the topic under discussion here, there has been no attempt at pretense. Although, as has been pointed out by others, there's been no attempt at historical accuracy, either.

[mchap]

Hey stick around and figure things out, but its also important have thick skin. I've gotten some snide comments on this forum in the past, but it didnt send me packing.

Bolewts58 has always been very helpful, and from what I can tell he just calls it as it is.

[BILL]

I agree with konigtiger. I think you will really enjoy the next step. Finding out what all these decorations mean. I hope you like reading history because a medal bar represents not only an individuals military career but, importantly, the politics and dynamics of his time period. The images, words and fictures on the medals have an historical meaning. Like I said, I hope you like reading history! Best regards.

[Konigtiger]

Back in the 70s, 80s and even 90s, when orders (at least the more common ones) were much more modestly priced, it was a practice to make up bars with genuine orders and decorations. I knew several collectors back then who had bars made up from single orders and decorations, or even modified existing bars to match document groups in their collections. I remember at the Max and SOS in the late 80s, a couple of German dealers who offered this service and I also knew a few skilled collectors who did it themselves.

Genuine, but anonymous bars were only valued for their individual medals back then. I was one of the few Imperial German collectors who collected bars at the time. Even then, I went out of my way to ensure provenance because I didn't want re-constructed bars in my collection, despite it not bothering many other collectors. Afterall, it was (and still is) quite common and accepted among British medal collectors to re-mount medals. So, I think the same thinking transferred over to Imperial German, at the time.

Unfortunately, now that bars are highly valued, a lot of those 30 and 40-year old bars made to order have likely been accepted into subsequent collections as period constructions, especially when accompanied by documents.

At least in the topic under discussion here, there has been no attempt at pretense. Although, as has been pointed out by others, there's been no attempt at historical accuracy, either.

I of course meant that they would be constructed in such a way (such as modern synthetic ribbons and/or obvious replica orders) as to make it quite clear that the bar is nothing more than a reproduction. Although one would have to question the sanity of anyone who purchased a Richtofen, Boelcke, etc... medal bar purported to be original.