1870 Wagner 1st class

[streptile]

And the 1914 version. All the same fake, but this guy is very adaptable. He constantly changes the hardware on the reverse (very creative).

[streptile]

Also, here is an authentic Kulm Kreuz for enlisted men -- different from the one for sale, and the one show above.

Image © Andreas Thies.

[Tiger 1]

Pics ...

[Tiger 1]

More pics...

[Tiger 1]

I was under the impression that the Kaiser owned and wore a Godet EKI as mentioned in other publications.

Any thoughts?

Tony

[Tiger 1]

Close up of tm.

[Montgomery Burns]

thanks tiger and Streptile ,,glad you guy's came in .
the ebay ek is fake ,,thats fore sure .
The wernits crosses front and core is original fore sure .

What makes me wonder so much is that they got the pin ,hook and the hinge absolutely right ..

even the hooks placement ,,its all perfect .
the hinge differences just to little to be called not good ..

I put the Wagner marks next to each other and it becomes apparent that they are not the same ...but.

I wonder did they use a rare pin hinge and hook to make the copy right ?

or is the Wernits cross repaired with parts of a copy ..?

or is this copy so good ?

that is what I do not have answers to ,,,

these Wernits and ebay copy backsides are to close ,,,or is it the picture .?

regards kay

[streptile]

I was under the impression that the Kaiser owned and wore a Godet EKI as mentioned in other publications.

Hey Tony,

I do remember what you're referring to.

I would imagine that the Kaiser had more than one 1870 EK1, and that the Godet was probably one of his "zweitstücke." For that matter, this Wagner shown here may well be a second piece also, since it's not what we consider the awarded Wagner type, and certainly not the earliest awarded Wagner type.

There's also the possibility that either Wernitz's book or Previtera's book (or both) are mistaken in the attribution of their respective EK1s to Wilhelm I. So hard to know for sure after all these years and so many disruptive wars, not to mention sloppy record keeping and/or unscrupulousness in the maintenance of even important public collections.

[Montgomery Burns]

I was under the impression that the Kaiser owned and wore a Godet EKI as mentioned in other publications.

Any thoughts?

Tony

besides that ,,common believes are that early Wagner crosses had a thin needle pin instead of of a wider example .....

those where fore the early Godets reserved ....

that is WY i do not like both backsides....

I have a wild possibility in mind but ,,,,,,,,,,,,, i want to wait what you guy's think.

regards kay

[Tiger 1]

Like this one?

[Tiger 1]

The frontm

[gregM]

I knew the ebay cross was a fake from the core details, that's why I posted it.
I am glad you all added to the conversation about the core and reverse
hardware--Thank you

I am surprised at how close this guy got to matching the hardware and the
makers marks. These guys are getting scary good.

Alex, Tony, Trevor--Thanks for the additional pictures.

[Montgomery Burns]

Like this one?

that is the one ,,


regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

I knew the ebay cross was a fake from the core details, that's why I posted it.
I am glad you all added to the conversation about the core and reverse
hardware--Thank you

I am surprised at how close this guy got to matching the hardware and the
makers marks. These guys are getting scary good.

Alex, Tony, Trevor--Thanks for the additional pictures.

I am surprised at how close this guy got to matching the hardware and the
makers marks. These guys are getting scary good.

to me it looks like Wernits cross has its pin replaced by a known fake pin system .

regards kay

[streptile]

My guess is that the fake is a just very good copy.

The pins do indeed look a lot alike, but if you look at the work of this faker in the cores -- especially the dates on the Schinkel and the crown and dates of the 1914 -- you can see he is very talented at copying existing designs. I wouldn't be surprised if he replicated that pin pretty perfectly.