1870 Wagner 1st class

[gregM]

This guy has done his home work. He knows what words to use even
if he is still selling crap.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1870-I-Wagne...item41847d9f2b

[gregM]

At least he was nice enough to take good pictures to
add to our FAKE database.

[Montgomery Burns]

would not be surprised the guy is a member here ,,

Ebay dealers love to check forums to see what is popular ..


well ,,he found the words ,,,,he still has to find the original items to it .






regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

1870 I. Wagner u. S 14 Loth iron Cross 1st class. Text book example exactly like the one worn by Kaiser Wilhem in the Bavarian Armee Museum and photographed in the new German language Iron Cross book. Note the unique top of the pinback that is notched like the one in the book and marked exactly the same.Has a Berlin Foundry Type A core. Selling a few of my rarer type Iron Crosses. 14 day return with free shipping in the USA.

photographed in the new German language Iron Cross book.

I ask him what book he is talking about
lets tease the guy a bit


regards kay

[Montgomery Burns]

somebody can do it for me ?

could not sign in there




R ,,kay

[Don D.]

would not be surprised the guy is a member here ,,

Ebay dealers love to check forums to see what is popular ..


well ,,he found the words ,,,,he still has to find the original items to it .






regards kay

If he is a member here let me know. He won't be for long. A typical dealer of ****.

[gregM]

photographed in the new German language Iron Cross book.

I ask him what book he is talking about

I asked.
He said it was the Frank Wernitz 2 volume set and added
these pics from the book.

[Montgomery Burns]

I could think Wernitz caught himself a fake wagner frame and backside with perhaps a original core ..

or we see a almost perfect copy with the one shown here ,,,,

as far as I can see front frame of the one shown here is not the same as Wernitses


somebody got the book ? getting us some better scans of that core ?
I can not be sure about it with these pictures.



its becoming interesting do we have here the perfect copy ? a Frankenstein ? or perhaps a new discovery ?


regards kay

[gregM]

I would be interested in seeing what the core of the cross
in Wernitz's book looks like.

I also do not own a copy.

[von Mackensen]

and from the same seller another suspect piece, for me:







In the description he wrote that this is a Kulm's cross but i remembered the kulm's cross some way different:



It has some holes (may vary from 2 to 16) for sewed it directly on uniform, i never listened something about back prongs (as that cross) for this award.

[Montgomery Burns]

Well

fore me the new Wagner copy ,,used also for ek1 1813 .




regards kay

[mistersilver]

This is the scan of the core presented in the book by Frank Wernitz.
A typical type "A":



The text also specifies:
"The broad, flat pin with a wider middle section and a blunt point is not made of silver and appears to have been added later, since the hinge is mounted on a small bar and does not correspond to the usual contemporary hinge types".
Alex

[Montgomery Burns]

thanks for the pictures and scans .

very interesting ,,,and ,,surprising again .
one thing is sure ,,,not the same core ,not the same frame as the one on the ebay add and the 1813 shown here .


I have no explanation ,,,first time to say ,,I dont know.


regards kay

[streptile]

The EK1 for sale on eBay is a very old fake frame, well known for many years on 1870s, 1914s, and 1939 Schinkels, dolled up with some new stuff like a pin and mark. This fake is constantly evolving. The "Kulm kreuz" is just this same fake frame before it was cut out, with some lame pin attached.

Wernitz's EK1 is a lovely original, probably with a replaced pin, and is not a Type A but a so-called "Type A1" core.

[streptile]

I have over a hundred of these fakes in my files, but here are two.