Sterling Silver Zeppelin Emblem or Medal

[Norm F]

Bumping up this old thread to ask a question.

Why was this particular unmarked Commemorative badge for Zeppelin Crews (Heer), which was posted by Ferg 1 in 2014, described as a Schott badge?

Are there other examples with these obverse details that are marked? And is there also a navy version (i.e. with crown) in this design?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

The Meybauer version is similar but has noticeable differences in wreath details compared with the "Schott" badge of Ferg 1.

At least the Meybauer is well-characterized by its distinctive hardware and the recorded images in the early Meybauer catalog. For reference here are two examples of the Meybauer Heer badge (marked and unmarked) and an example of the Meybauer Marine version, all from previous postings on the net. (The untrimmed planchet posted by Ferg 1 in post #11 is also the Meybauer design.)

It's not unreasonable to suggest that the unmarked badge posted by Ferg 1 could be the type distributed by Schott, but I wondered if there was any other evidence to support this theory.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

To aid in the discussion here's a side-by-side comparison image of the Meybauer on the left and the one suggested by Ferg 1 as a Schott on the right, in order to illustrate the differences. Both fine looking badges, and I haven't yet seen another example like the one on the right.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

A comparison between a Schott U-Boat badge and Ferg 1's Zeppelin badge perhaps shows some similarity in the matte pastel-like greening of the wreath? The shade of green is hard to compare between different photo conditions but the texture seems similar and quite different from the Meybauer lacquer.

[Norm F]

Three more examples of the "Schott" Erinnerungsabzeichen für Heeres-Luftschiffer. The last two were attributed examples posted on GMIC in the past, and the last one from GMIC posted by larsb001 from Denmark even has the original award document dated 1920.

Interesting that the recipient and the signatory were Navy but it's the Army version and not the Navy version of the badge. I wonder if this means there was only one version in the beginning and the crown was a later amendment to the design for the Navy?

Best regards,
---Norm

[Norm F]

Here's a photo of a Kriegsmarine Kapitänleutnant wearing the Heeres version of the badge, probably from the 1930s given the 1st pattern eagle on his cap. Perhaps since they were all to be privately purchased anyway by eligible seamen, they just presented their certificates and bought whichever version they liked best regardless of expectations?

[jaba-the-hunt]

The guy on the picture is a Fragattenkapitän / Kapitän zur See.

I saw a lot of groups and pictures of airship members with commemorative badge and I can say that no one cares about the versions. I saw a lot of army guys wearing a navy version (crown) and vice versa.
Only a few wear the correct version. This is because they had to buy the badge themself.

Regarding the Godet attributed badges I don't know if there are any evidence. First time I red about this badges was on Baldes book but he doesn't give any explination. The same for other attribution in his book.

Kind regards
Alex

[BubbaZ]

Regarding the Godet attributed badges I don't know if there are any evidence. First time I red about this badges was on Baldes book but he doesn't give any explination. The same for other attribution in his book.

Kind regards
Alex

Hi Alex,
Did you mean Schott in the above statement and not Godet as Norm was asking about Schott attributed zep badge?
Cheers,
Hubert

[jaba-the-hunt]

My fault. I mean Schott but wrote Godet.

Kind regards
Alex

[Ferg 1]

I think in answer to the Meybauer original strike details , as my test strike planchet shows the badges were made or struck without crown and as evidenced by the marine versions the crown was separately soldered on . It’s a great shame that I cannot post pictures on the forum anymore nor can I get in touch with any of the people running this site to sort this , I have a host more zeppelin badges and insignia that I could of shared with you guys , hey ho ....
Ferg.

[Norm F]

Hi Guys,

Happy New Year! It's great to see the rekindled in this thread including Alex and Ferg, the "heavy-hitters" from past threads on GMIC and here.

The guy on the picture is a Fragattenkapitän / Kapitän zur See.

Yes of course, I meant Kapitän zur See. Thanks for the correction Alex.

I saw a lot of groups and pictures of airship members with commemorative badge and I can say that no one cares about the versions. I saw a lot of army guys wearing a navy version (crown) and vice versa.
Only a few wear the correct version. This is because they had to buy the badge themself.

Thanks for the insight.

Regarding the Schott attributed badges I don't know if there are any evidence. First time I red about this badges was on Baldes book but he doesn't give any explination. The same for other attribution in his book.

Kind regards
Alex

Good to know. So far it appears the attribution is based upon circumstantial evidence. If this is the particular type of badge seen in the earliest groupings with award dates in 1920 then it's logical (if not airtight) to assume it's the type referred to in the original letter from the Reichswehrministerium instructing recipients to order their badges from Walter Schott directly.

Having said that, that only means Schott was designer and distributor of the badge -- it's still logical to assume as the designer he would have subcontracted the actual production of the badge to one of his tradesmen contacts.

Best regards,
---Norm

[gregM]

I think in answer to the Meybauer original strike details , as my test strike planchet shows the badges were made or struck without crown and as evidenced by the marine versions the crown was separately soldered on . It’s a great shame that I cannot post pictures on the forum anymore nor can I get in touch with any of the people running this site to sort this , I have a host more zeppelin badges and insignia that I could of shared with you guys , hey ho ....
Ferg.

Ferg,
You need to be a paid association member to be able to post pictures.
If you would like, you can email me some pictures and I will post them for you.
Let me know and I will send you my email via PM.

[Norm F]

I think in answer to the Meybauer original strike details , as my test strike planchet shows the badges were made or struck without crown and as evidenced by the marine versions the crown was separately soldered on .

Hi Ferg,

You're suggesting that the crown was a separately attached piece on the Marine version of Meybauer's badges? I believe the few photos available of the Marine version show them to be one piece with hand-cut internal cutouts.

I believe your test strike was just from the die for the Heer version and there would have been a separate die set for the Marine version.

It’s a great shame that I cannot post pictures on the forum anymore nor can I get in touch with any of the people running this site to sort this , I have a host more zeppelin badges and insignia that I could of shared with you guys , hey ho ....
Ferg.

Feel free to email me through PM and I can post any photos you'd like (I just noticed gregM made the same offer). A lot of the photos I have on file are from your previous postings, especially your Godet collection on GMIC.

Best regards,
---Norm

[Ferg 1]

Hi Norm, the pics in Carsten Baldes book show three marine Meybauer badges ,admittedly they joint is good between the crown and body but it is certainly soldered on separately . I have looked at quite a few in hand over the years . I imagine once soldered on it was finished ‘flush’ then plated . I have a good close up of this area but the badge is not mine so cannot post pics . With regard to the three Meybauer crown close ups you show , the middle one is a fake . These have been circulating for a year or so now and catch many people out ( including me ) .
The tell tale flaw in the top right crown arch is on all of these very dangerous fakes . Bare that in mind if you are offered one .
Ferg

[Ferg 1]

Also the placement of the crown differs on left and right badges ( ignore the middle one ) so that suggests to me beyond doubt that they are separately applied .
Ferg ( again )