1813 Iron Cross second Class

[jwburchell]

"Highly unusual 1813 Iron Cross 2nd class..."

As I am away from my residence and usual bank of reference material, except for the internet and W-A-F, in doing some research I found this interesting thread and am seeking some feedback from knowledgeable forum members, please.

Next week an Iron Cross will be sold at a local auction. Here is the listed description:

Quote: Highly unusual double German 1813 Iron Cross Second Class with original ribbon. Decorated with 3 oak leaves, the Imperial crown and the initials FW, dated 1813. The reverse is identical to the front, which is extremely unusual, as all 1813 Iron Crosses are blank on the reverse. 1.75" by 1.75" (4.4x4.4cm). $500.00 - 1,500.00. Unquote

I have only seen the rather useless photo posted on the auctioneer's internet listing, so am unable to provide any more details.

I suspect that this is a very bogus fantasy piece, but would appreciate knowing of the possible existence of such a double-sided 1813 cross, please.

Thanks in advance and regards,
John

[gregM]

It does not sound right to me. Most 1813 cores were sand cast. I would think it would not be possible to cast something twice to "accidently" end up with a 2 sided piece. PLUS--I would never bid on a 1813 cross or ANY cross without first seeing some good pictures.

[jwburchell]

Thanks, Greg. Doesn't sound right to me either, as I indicated, but as I am no expert on EKs, I wondered if the existence of such two-sided ones was even known. I would not bid on it either without seeing better pictures or having it in my hand at the auction preview. If these things do exist, I may drive there for a look and possibly bid...but only if someone indicates that such original anomalys are even known to exist. Any feedback from others in the know, please?
Thanks,
John

[Wild Card]

Gentlemen,

Here is another example for comparison. This one also came from Detlev a number of years ago. I think that it is a good one; but with all of the copies of these 1813 EK’s, it is a real gamble. I have another which also does not stay here that I am trying to make arrangements to pick up tonight. If we connect, I will post pictures.

Best wishes,

Wild Card

[gregM]

Wild Card,
Is your cross 2 sided? does it have the oaks on both
sides of the cross? I believe that is what John is asking.

[Wild Card]

You are right GregM. I was responding more to the earlier posts; and I apologize for not addressing John’s question. With regard to that question, I am not aware of any “double sided” 1813 crosses and can not find any examples in my library. Of course there is the piece from the Aurich collection that is blank on both sides.

My cross is blank on the reverse (see below). I just have to ask a (another?) dumb question here. Do the post war, 1957 I think it is, crosses have the oak leaves, et al., on both sides?

Thanks again for pointing out my faux pas, GregM.

Wild Card

[Blitz]

I was also lucky enough to acquire my 1813 EK2 from detlev years ago. Many of you have allready seen it (once or twice ), but I'll post it again to refresh your memory. Once I get back to my archives.. For the record, it is 1 sided.

As for the double-sided Ek2. I would think hard on considering it's authentic to the era, even if it came with good documentation, from a respected and trustworthy source and accurate pictures. Whatever the case it's still not an official piece and therefore has very limited appeal to me, even if I didn't allready have one.

[Marc Garlasco]

Here is mine:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=1813

[Blitz]

Right.. ..Why bother to post it again since it's already been posted.
Here is mine:
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ght=mother+Eks

[Wild Card]

Here are pictures I promised back in post #19. No claims as to whether it is good or not; but would be interested in opinions.

[Wild Card]

Reverse

[gregM]

Here is mine

[jwburchell]

OK, I managed to get some photos from the auctioneer of the "double-sided 1813", but for some reason which I do not understand, the system is not allowing me to post attachments here for assessment. Anybody know why?

Cannot tell from the pictures whether or not the medal has a "stepped-core", but there are no cracks to the iron core. As the auction is tomorrow, in the interest of time, I am now making arrangements for a personal viewing of the cross and will try and get back with details later today, if possible.

Update:
Just returned from having an in-hand look at this EK. Here are some details:
1. It is non-magnetic.
2. On first glance it appears to be one-piece construction and is relatively light in weight. However, I think that it may be two-piece construction as there is no inner core, as such. There are a couple of very small holes near the beading in a few places on either side under which it is hollow. Although the outside edges of the frame (brass, I believe) are rough, I was unable to clearly detect any soldering line. I would guess that both identical sides were die-stamped and then soldered together.
3. The small attachment loop for the larger ribbon suspension ring is mounted into the upper frame of the cross, ie. through a small hole drilled or made into the flange versus being soldered to the frame.
4. There is no step-core.

"Flak88" has kindly offered to post the pictures which were supplied to me.

Thanks,
John

[Marc Garlasco]

John,
I think it is a fishing lure. She has a stepped core alright, but very weak details, bad date, wrong eyelet, and a ribbon as new as they come. I would not go near it. Some think you make an ugly 1813 and people will buy it thinking it is old. Well, they were actually quite spectacular...and nothing like this.
Marc

[Blitz]

Indeed not.