PLM any chance?

[Dete]

Hello,

i only have these two pics for the moment, hopefully can show some more and better ones soon. But from these two, can i get some opinions about possible maker and if WW1 period or later produced?

Thx in advance
Detlev

[streptile]

Yes, this one has a good chance in my opinion.

If it's good it'll be a Friedländer or a Wagner in silver gilt, from after Nov. 1916. I'd say you should get very good photos, measurements and weight. Will probably be marked W or FR and 938.

The oakleaves also look good.

[Biro]

Agree - looks to be a very nice W/FR piece.

[cobra-2001]

plm

Hi you might want to look at it better. The u and the r are joined like the S&L PLMS and the L goes all the way to the top edge of the arm which is not correct or looks like it in this picture. I did a search and it looks like the friedlaender and or wagner . The enamel looks good .

[streptile]

Some original Wagners had a the "u" and "r" bridged also, and many others show them almost bridged. It's not really a reliable indicator; you have to look to other things like proportions, eagle design, etc.

Original Wager (© Brian S):

[Dete]

Hi,
thx for the answers. I am a bit concerned because of the beaks of the eagles. If i look at the prussian blue all WW1s has open beaks, also these two from my collection.
Maybe it s only the picture. Also do original Wagner or Friedländer exist with only the 938 stamp and no marker mark?

Best regards
Detlev

The first one is marked 938 and W and the second one is a hollow silver one marked 938 and FR on the ring.

[Biro]

... I am a bit concerned because of the beaks of the eagles. If i look at the prussian blue all WW1s has open beaks...

I would not be overly concerned Detlev - there are plenty of examples where the beaks are closed (and they are only 'closed' because whoever hand finished them has not put a file between them to make them 'open'). A quick look at page 376 of Prussian Blue will show you 4 examples of late war Wagner eagles with - quite frankly - some terrible hand finishing (thighs missing, beaks truncated) and the bottom right eagle does have a 'closed' beak (or at least one that has not had the material between the beaks filed out).

.."Also do original Wagner or Friedländer exist with only the 938 stamp and no marker mark?...

It would be unusual but not unheard of for there to be just a silver content mark. If it doesn't say 938, then don't touch it - but whether it's maker marked or not, it does conform to all the physical characteristics expected in a solid late war silver gilt by W or FR, despite the rather confusing comments by Cobra.

Marshall

[blind pew]

Hi,
thx for the answers. I am a bit concerned because of the beaks of the eagles. If i look at the prussian blue all WW1s has open beaks, also these two from my collection.
Maybe it s only the picture. Also do original Wagner or Friedländer exist with only the 938 stamp and no marker mark?

Best regards
Detlev

The first one is marked 938 and W and the second one is a hollow silver one marked 938 and FR on the ring.

TWO PLMs have dropped on your doorstep?

You are a lucky man indeed. The second cross looks familiar to me. Is someone offering to sell these to you now? If so, it is certainly lucky and odd that you would be presented with two original PLMs.

[streptile]

It would be unusual but not unheard of for there to be just a silver content mark.

Also remember that some Friedländers are marked FR in really weird places, like the top of an eagle's head for example.

[Zepenthusiast]

Interesting to see so much flash still present from the die pressing, between the tail feathers and the legs of the subject PlM. They must have been in a hurry! Later 1918, one might wonder?

(Chest feathers still holding out pretty well, though...especially on the reverse.)