1870 Opinions please

[Marc Garlasco]

The 25 gives me the creeps - any thoughts?
Marc

[Biro]

Hi Marc...


1) The EK2 is the infamous 'glowing 9th bead' Detlev fake..... 1870 EKII bar. This thread also contains a picture of the IDENTICAL set-up posted by Gordon Williamson a while ago, and Niemanns 'copy'.......you decide

2) I had the identical non-serif cheap looking 25 yr oaks ......and they were also given the thumbs down by Detlev, and many others here....

3) Don't even get me started on the Weiderholungsspange......these are now readily available for about 400 EURO on e-bay, militaria-web and any number of other questionable 'sources'...all marked Wagner and Sohn with crown, moon, etc.... and all looking exactly like mine, give or take the attatchment method.

These are nearly as rare as an 1813 EK1......800-1000 odd....so statistics alone dictate that these recurrently surfacing WHS are extremely unlikely to be period original, even if they are not stricly..'fake'.

The Weiderholungsspange is effectively an Iron Cross - a very collectable field of militaria from as far back as 1914.........and it is RARE. So ask yourself - what are the chances you'll find one on e-bay....

That's where I stand on it, anyway. I wouldn't touch this particular combo because every piece involved in it has been openly 'questioned' by people who know a damn sight more than I do.

A rare original weiderholungsspange showing up on a questionable EK2 and Oaks set-up? I just don't think so.

JMO.....

Marshall

[Marc Garlasco]

Marshall,

Thanks for the excellent analysis! I thought it strange when I started to see the spanges showing up on New york City streetcorners as well! Man, you can get them anywhere!

Marc

[Brian S]

I'm seeing several dissimilarities although the one on top is very close.

[Brian S]

This is very close but there are again several sublte differences.

The obvious is the &, the distance at the end of the motto between the '.' and final letters.

[Brian S]

Again several differences but very close. Especially notice the '4'. What I can't see on the one shown at top is whether it has the little punches in each of the pearls around the cross. These are evident in mine as the patina has settled into these indentations.

[Marc Garlasco]

Thansk everyone! Brian - very nice work!
Marc

[Brian S]

Here's the crown and again very close but I can't see the indentations in the one you posted.

[Biro]

I don't want to turn this into a 'post your weiderholungsspange' thread, but since Brian has done some good work on it, I will include mine - which for the record, is not one that Herr Niemann is a fan of......


Mine has dents in the pearls, and the maker mark (at least in relation to the 'spacings' Brian mentions) appears to be closer more to the top one in Brians comparison than the bottom, but I honestly couldn't say it definitely matches either based solely on the pictures we are using- (mine included)


cheers

Marshall

[Brian S]

All things judged in Hamburg are not always perfect.

Here are all three mottos and I see more similarity to mine than the one on eBay.

The 'R' in Berlin is real tell.