General's medal bar ?????

[mravery]

Hello All....

I'm looking for opinions and speculation.....

I have an Imperial Lt. General's parade uniform (un-named damn it ) and I want to put a bar on it.....

It has loops for a fairly long bar...... and one breast badge (NOT IC as the loops are too large for that)..... and it will also take ONE Commanders (neck) badge....

What I'm thinking is a bar like this..... with a Commanders set of either a Red Eagle or Crown......

Opinions or thoughts ???

Cheers
MArk

[mravery]

bar

[mravery]

tunic

[Brian S]

No. Wrong. Just sell me the tunic and I'll put the right bar on it. ...and the Johanniter on there just hurts the eyes.

[Daniel Krause]

hmmm. not really.

Medal bar would not fit. Tunic is before WW1 and the medal bar this of a Major, max LtCol in 1918.

Best regards

Daniel

[mravery]

hmmm. not really.

Medal bar would not fit. Tunic is before WW1 and the medal bar this of a Major, max LtCol in 1918.

Best regards

Daniel

Bummer.....

I guess I'm gonna need a more expensive bar then huh

Cheers
M

[Andy Baus]

Mark,

In May 1914 there were 90 Gen.Lts. The range of decorations held by these 90 is quite wide. There were several who had over 20, mostly those who had served in the Garde or as Adjutants to Princes as the like. From your description, it would seem that your tunic was set up to handle far fewer, as well as only a couple of breast stars.

There was also one, Robert Kosch, commander of the 10. Div., who had just three- the PRAO2mEuSt, PKrO2 and the PDK. So it is rather hard to say what is a presentative bar for your tunic, though that worn by Raimund von Pelet-Narbonne, commander of the Guard Cavalry Division, is a good as any. He had the PRAO2mE PKrO2 PStJO PDK BZ2b LDH2 MG2b OV3a JM4 RA2.

Also note that of the 90 Gen.Lts., 78 had as their highest award the PRAO2 in various combinations (with oakleaves, star, etc.). So, in order to be close, you would most likely need to start there and work your way down the ladder and perhaps include a PRAO3 or 4 with Crown and then any number of "foreign" decorations.

Of note is the PStJO (Johanniter Orden). Ten Gen.Lts. had the PStJO in 1914, six Ehrenritter and four Rechtsritter. Now, it is certainly possible that your tunic belonged to one of these ten men, but there does not seem to be any way to narrow the field. Do you have any other information which might help to eliminate some of these?

Andy

Bummer.....

I guess I'm gonna need a more expensive bar then huh

Cheers
M

[mravery]

Mark,

In May 1914 there were 90 Gen.Lts. The range of decorations held by these 90 is quite wide. There were several who had over 20, mostly those who had served in the Garde or as Adjutants to Princes as the like. From your description, it would seem that your tunic was set up to handle far fewer, as well as only a couple of breast stars.

There was also one, Robert Kosch, commander of the 10. Div., who had just three- the PRAO2mEuSt, PKrO2 and the PDK. So it is rather hard to say what is a presentative bar for your tunic, though that worn by Raimund von Pelet-Narbonne, commander of the Guard Cavalry Division, is a good as any. He had the PRAO2mE PKrO2 PStJO PDK BZ2b LDH2 MG2b OV3a JM4 RA2.

Also note that of the 90 Gen.Lts., 78 had as their highest award the PRAO2 in various combinations (with oakleaves, star, etc.). So, in order to be close, you would most likely need to start there and work your way down the ladder and perhaps include a PRAO3 or 4 with Crown and then any number of "foreign" decorations.

Of note is the PStJO (Johanniter Orden). Ten Gen.Lts. had the PStJO in 1914, six Ehrenritter and four Rechtsritter. Now, it is certainly possible that your tunic belonged to one of these ten men, but there does not seem to be any way to narrow the field. Do you have any other information which might help to eliminate some of these?

Andy

Hey Andy,

Thats great info......

All I can tell you about the tunic is:

1) There are loops for a medal bar......... and the loops are 11 centimeters apart... so I guess a bar of 5 -7 medals.

2) The tunic had only 1 neck badge

3) The tunic has loops for 1 breast badge (would have to be a 'star' of some sort... as they are too large for an IC 1st class)

4) The tunic has the Johanniter order.

5) The rank is that of a retired Lt. General

Other than that... I have nothing else to go on....... Do you think this is enough info to at least narrow down the field ?

Cheers and Thanks !
Mark

[Brian S]

Here's a guy who retired about the time of your tunic with a medal bar not so large. Notice the 1870 EKII. Your man would no doubt have been a vetern of this war. If you're going to dress this dolly let's do it right.

[Brian S]

4) The tunic has the Johanniter order.

Do you think this is enough info to at least narrow down the field ?

You know the Johanniter was on there for 90 years? Do you really think measuring the distance between loops will narrow down the field? Are you serious?

[mravery]

You know the Johanniter was on there for 90 years? Do you really think measuring the distance between loops will narrow down the field? Are you serious?

Brian,

The loops are 'above' the Johanniter........ so this would be an additional award.... i.e. the breast star of the Red Eagle or Crown order)...

Cheers
Mark

[Daniel Krause]

hmmm. He could have a handful more Commander grades buttoned in the whole row down.
With just one star I THINK he is a characterized LtGen, a Brigade Cdr who retired with that Charakter and the Red Eagle 2 and Crown Order 2 with star.

Best regards

Daniel

[mravery]

hmmm. He could have a handful more Commander grades buttoned in the whole row down.
With just one star I THINK he is a characterized LtGen, a Brigade Cdr who retired with that Charakter and the Red Eagle 2 and Crown Order 2 with star.

Best regards

Daniel

Hey Daniel,

With the other tunics I have had..... there are normally little 'hooks' under the flap that the neck orders would attach too. There are no hooks on this tunic and from what I can see... never were. The onlyh indication of a neck badge is the silk collar interior 'flap' that would go against the throat to keep the wool from irritating the neck of the wearer.... This 'flap' has been designed to accomadate a neck ribbon..... Really kind of cool.... I'll try to post some pics later....

Cheers
Mark

[mravery]

Here is the neck liner with the 'cut out' for the neck order...


(and NO... this is not a shamless plug for Sears ! )

[mravery]

oops.. posted twice....