Imperial German Pilot Badge.

[MilitaryAntique]

Hi guys!

What are your opinions on this Imperial German Pilot Badge?

Any input appriciated!

Thank you!

[90th Light]

Looks to be an original two piece hollow type. Possibly unmarked "Juncker" production made of silver. There may be less than 800 parts of silver in that one or again it is simply unmarked with silver content ?

WW1 period ?

Chris

[MilitaryAntique]

Thank you for the input!

Any other opinions?

[phild]

IMO the detail is very soft for a Juncker badge of this type. I will make the usual excuse of this being based on these photos only....but the photos are good and the detail is still not up to what I would expect.

The surface texture is also not something that I have seen on a Juncker, nor is the hinge design, exact pin shape and general quality of construction....so if it is not a Juncker, what is it? If it is a Juncker, why all of the quality issues and differences with other hollow backed Juckers?

[phild]

I'll revise my first reponse somewhat and say the the hinge and catch look to have been repaired and that would account for the difference in the hinge area. The pin may in fact in fine on further looking.

My advise would be to check the weight and the LXW dimensions. The badge may be fine and I can not say that I have ever seen a fake like it, but the texture of the finish does concern me and I would to make sure that it is not a precision cast copy of a real Juncker. The detail in terms of being "all there" is very nice, but it does not convince me that it is a die struck badge at least from what I can see.

[90th Light]

Text book "800" silver Juncker to compare with courtesy of Dan Cook,

Chris

[90th Light]

Text book (lower grade silver, nickel silver or tin/ steel ?) hollow back Juncker to compare with courtesy of Roy A,

Chris

[90th Light]

Comparison of the two,

Chris

[90th Light]

More comparison,

Chris

[90th Light]

Honest period wear with repaired hinge, non-crisp strike at the time of manufacture, thicker gauge of nickel silver or post war exact copy casting with reproduction hinge ???

Chris

[phild]

Chris,

I love the two that you posted! I realize that the subject badge of this thread has all of the Juncker features. It may be photos or it may be my paranoia, but there is something about the lack of crispness, the surface texture and color that bothers me...it may be fine and I admit that most of my experience is with the more typical (but my favorite) Juncker Berlin cresent 800 stamped badges and to a some extent the non-backed stamped Juncker badges in plated iron and German silver.

The subject badge was either correctly constructed or is a fine casting of a real one.

I realize that not all strikes are equal, but look carefully at the details of the branches on either side of the center ribbob bow knot. Compare those to the two that you posted. Pay close attention to the bark grain that you can really see on that thick branch in the center of of the loop holes on either side of the bow knot on the silver badge that you posted.

That is something that I look for on a siliver Juncker. It will not be as present on the steel/iron badge as the metal wont pick it up in the strike and it is fine detail.

I think that the subject badge may be ok, it just shows some characteristics that I am not familiar with. I do believe that if it is period that the pin/hinge was either replaced or maybe this enitire badge was finished by some other firm and the front and backs just purchased from Juncker?

[90th Light]

Hello Phil,

I do not think that your caution is misplaced at all. Sometimes that type of unusual box hinge is entirely the sign of an excellent, exact cast badge. Think about the first of the excellent 1939 gold wound badges maker marked "30", they were perfect in almost every way except for a cast type surface, box hinge broad thick pin and too heavy in weight.

Your input has been very valuable and may have just answered the original question for the member who posted this badge. Plus opened my eyes

Chris

[90th Light]

Is this strange hinge on a WW1 Juncker pilot badge just a later 1930's/ 40's type of hinge ???

Chris

[90th Light]

Comparison with Juncker German Cross hinge,

Chris

[90th Light]

Comparison with Juncker WW2 pilot badge hinge,

Chris