I know the ribbon is wrong ,but what exactly is this ribbon for?
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Engraving on the front -
The back
The engraving is very nicely done,it also has a very nice hinged hook to hang the medal on.Anyone have any ideas?Comment
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I also got the document for the MVK 3rd class but it's framed and the frame is in bad shape so i took it apart to find out the document has been glued to some cardboard
Is there any SAFE way to get the doc. off the cardboard??
Eric.Comment
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I don´t think so, Eric. You would damage the document in any case.Originally posted by Eric K.I also got the document for the MVK 3rd class but it's framed and the frame is in bad shape so i took it apart to find out the document has been glued to some cardboard Is there any SAFE way to get the doc. off the cardboard??
Eric.
The ribbon is for a bavarian commemorative medal. But i don´t know, which one. I think, Tom Y or Eric Stahlhut can help you with this one.
all the best,
GerdComment
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I figured it would be pretty hard to get the doc. off the cardboard
Thanks,
Eric.Comment
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Hello guys,
The fob is for a fraternal organization. You can find them with all types of ribbon color combinations. Bavaria had a blue stripe, Saxony had a green stripe, Prussia a red one, etc.
best,
e~Comment
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Thanks ,I was wondering why the engraving was upside down when theres a medal attached.So where would you wear this?Just dangling off your button?
Eric.Comment
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The clip on the end that holds your medal would have had a watch. When you dug into your pocket for the watch and held it to see the time, the engraving would have been right side up.
These items started out as bona fide watch fobs-yours-, but with the advent of wrist watches in the 20's they became nostalgic souveniers for the old timers.Comment
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This one is from 1919.
It's actually pretty interesting in the sense that the obverse shows an EK1 for combat and the allegorical image of a foe being conquered, yet on the reverse one gets a sense of relief that the war is over.Comment
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Thanks! These are pretty nice, just one more thing to be looking for now.
Eric.Comment
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Fraternal fobs ('Zipfel')
Perhaps some more information on these might be of interest.
The fobs were initially worn on the watch chain on the vest. Nowadays, when hardly anybody still wears pocket watches, they are attached to a clip that goes on the belt.
The ribbon is in the colours of the fraternity concerned (usually three, sometimes only two). Fraternities were free to choose their colours. Many fraternities are named after a certain geographical area, e.g. Borussia for Prussia, Saxonia or Thuringia. These would usually contain (at least an element of) the particular country's flag. In the years after 1871, the reichsfarben black-white-red were popular, as were from 1815 black-red-gold, the original colours of the 'Burschenschaft' in Jena.
The fob shown in this thread is called a 'Bierzipfel', the largest format. This was given by the 'Leibbursch' to his 'Leibfux' (when a new member, called a Fuchs or Fux [lit. fox] joined a fraternity, he choose an older member as his mentor and guide, engaging in a 'Leibverhältnis'. The older one, the Leibbursch, presented the young one with a Bierzipfel, whereas he in turn was given a smaller fob, a 'Weinzipfel'. Weinzipfel could also be freely exchanged between members of a fraternity or members of different ones as a sign of friendship. Fiancées or sisters of members could be presented with an even smaller version, a 'Sektzipfel'.
The silver (or gold) parts leant themselves to engravings. On the central piece's front would invariably be the fraternity's cypher, consisting of the name initials artfully entwined with the letters v c f (vivat, crescat, floreat), expressing the desire for the fraternity to 'live long, grow and prosper'. On the back would be the name of the presenter and the recipient followed by the cypher to denote membership and status indicators where appropriate. Common abbreviaions are:
A.H. ('Alter Herr'), lit. old boy, denoting a senior paying member who has finished his studies;
X (Senior), the elected student president for a term
XX (Consenior), student member of the presidium responsible for fencing affairs, resp. in non-fencing fraternities some other charge;
XXX (Subsenior), the secretary;
F.M. ('Fuxmajor'), an older student member responsible for training the young members (Füxe)
Here you may also find the fraternity's (mostly latin) motto, and the university term when the fob was presented.
The one with the Iron Cross centre is unusual and probably given during WW1 as a patriotic gesture. These are rare.
Hundreds of fraterities still exist in Germany today. A search on German ebay will turn up a large selection of mostly younger examples. The collecting of 'Studentica', i.e. the paraphernalia associated with student fraternities, is an established hobby in Germany, many collectors being themselves members.
Regards,
KarlLast edited by Kurt Doench; 10-10-2004, 04:52 AM.Comment
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Fraternal fobs ('Zipfel')
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WOW, never expected such an in depth response! Thanks, Is there any way to date the one I have?
EricComment
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Hi Eric,
On the reverse of the lower or upper end piece, the term should be engraved. It should read something like "W. 19 <cypher> 29/30 S." for winter term (Winter-Semester) 1929/30, the cypher being that of the university, not the fraternity, or "S. 19 <cypher> 30 S.", i.e. summer term. Or simpler: "WS. 29/30" or "SS. 30".
It should even be possible to identify the particular fraternity.
An anecdote from my fraternity in Heidelberg. There has traditionally been a member's gallery in our house, showing a portrait photo of everyone from the beginning, and noting the term of entrance, i.e. W.S. or S.S. followed by the year. In 1945, American forces requisitioned the house and took away all photos marked "S.S.", presuming to find evidence of SS members.
Regards,
KarlComment
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