Sturm Bataillon 16 EKII document

[METZ]

Hi Brian,

... However, it is true that initially I was being attacked in quite a nasty way, so much so, that two people who are acquainted with me came to my defence. ....

I'm really astonished! Nasty way? Which sentence really attacked you personal? There was a fake on ebay and we found some more fakes!
So one user wrote: be careful with rare documents from this ebay-seller (far away from Europe, maybe not easy to return!?)!
After that you told us, that you are the owner and you bought this documents from a german dealer!
We said: that's sad, but contact the dealer! Absolutly nobody said that you are the faker!
The first time I read about that - is here in this WAF-thread!!! I think you misunderstood something!
Best regards,
Jens

[avensis2000]

Based on my previous following on long period on WAF, I would say I consider Bolwts as quite trustable guy on lot of things. I got a little bit awkward feeling about the few last criticisms, and I dont agree with them.

I have had so much good info from his posts on various matters (which are true, no doubt about it) that it's time to to say "thank you" for him. I am not aware of any mishappenings/wrong information of objects sold by hin, but if there's anything like that (like with anyone on this or other known forum member), I'd appreciate if any suspects would be presented in a "gentleman"way, instead of this aggravative "kiosk-style"way.

[METZ]

Hi avensis2000,

....I'd appreciate if any suspects would be presented in a "gentleman"way, instead of this aggravative "kiosk-style"way.

... maybe I misunderstood something!? But what is here a "kiosk-style"way!?
Fact is, we found some fake-docs and told the owner to return the documents back to the dealer! That's all!
Best regards,
Jens


addition & clarification:
I'm sorry for Brian that he bought this fakes and I'm sorry, that he misunderstood something!
But, it is not allowed to expose fakes and tell the owner, that he is selling fakes? That was what we done!
Brian is a victim of very good fakes and hopefully he can return the docs to the seller!

More important now is, to find the source from this dangerous fakes!!!
What kind of documents maybe will follow (respectively are already in several collections?)!?

[avensis2000]

Whops... Sorry. My mistake. No mean to insult anyone.... On a first glimpse it just looked quite straightforward. I just read it wrong (after coming from bar)

I take that back, my mistake.

After reading through all again, it looks different

But to B, I have to say i still admire his knowledge on his area

Hi avensis2000,

... maybe I misunderstood something!? But what is here a "kiosk-style"way!?
Fact is, we found some fake-docs and told the owner to return the documents back to the dealer! That's all!
Best regards,
Jens

[METZ]

Whops... Sorry. My mistake. No mean to insult anyone.... On a first glimpse it just looked quite straightforward. I just read it wrong (after coming from bar)

I take that back, my mistake.

After reading through all again, it looks different

But to B, I have to say i still admire his knowledge on his area

... no problem! I also wrote an addition & clarification (because: english is not my mother tongue!):

I'm sorry for Brian that he bought this fakes and I'm sorry, that he misunderstood something!
But, it is not allowed to expose fakes and tell the owner, that he is selling fakes? That was what we done!
Brian is a victim of very good fakes and hopefully he can return the docs to the dealer!

More important now is, to find the source from this dangerous fakes!!!
What kind of documents maybe will follow (respectively are already in several collections?)!?

[Brian L.]

Hi

Let's just let the matter rest.

I am attempting to return the document. But, as there was a 3rd party involved, it could prove difficult.

I am not prepared to name the German dealer, as some would like because firstly I didn't buy directly and secondly as I don't have a receipt, it's my word against the dealer's.

There are libel laws, even internationally. If I made an accusation against the dealer on a public forum, they'd be in their right to sue me in Germany and if they won the case, then I'd never be able to go to Germany without facing legal trouble.

I have had a bit of bad luck recently, not just with this but also with a Freikorps item which turned out to be a fake and which the eBay seller refused to take back or give me a refund.

Militaria is a dangerous hobby and even the most seasoned and knowledgeable collector can be scammed these days.

[jaeger7-de]

...

Perhaps my German isn't that good sometimes, so I misunderstood.

The people at Feldgrau have hurt my reputation and I am not too pleased about it.

Sorry Dear, but...

...the people at Feldgrau did not hurt your reputation.
If your reputation got hurt than by yourself. If you are really working in the graphic business as a professor at a higher educational level, you should have had a closer look at what you are buying (and selling).

The Feldgrau-communitiy simply showed to you, that your document is a fake.

And you offered some "questionable" items - so it is not too difficult to understand that all bells have been ringing.

Regards

jaeger7-de

[Brian L.]

Sorry Dear, but...

...the people at Feldgrau did not hurt your reputation.
If your reputation got hurt than by yourself. If you are really working in the graphic business as a professor at a higher educational level, you should have had a closer look at what you are buying (and selling).

The Feldgrau-communitiy simply showed to you, that your document is a fake.

And you offered some "questionable" items - so it is not too difficult to understand that all bells have been ringing.

Regards

jaeger7-de

That's quite an arrogant and smug response.

As it happens, I innocently offered 1 "questionable" item, which I removed from sale when the issues arose. Since the Feldgrau remarks, I have had two people return perfectly good items to me citing the defaming comments made by certain Feldgrau members as their reason and stating that I cannot be trusted, despite the fact that I have sold hundreds of genuine items on eBay and here on WAF and have always been held in high regard, at least until this incident. So, yes it's the shotgun approach of certain members of Feldgrau that have caused me problems. I am a member there and would have appreciated someone sending me a PM about the document before the public lynching. Nobody on WAF or GMIC would have conducted such a blatant witch hunt on a member because people here and on GMIC are gentlemen and collecting comrades.

Because we're gentlemen here, I took it upon myself to update people at WAF about the issues with the document because I had shown it here first and had initially received very favourable remarks about it. In light of what happened at Feldgrau, I felt honour-bound to inform people here about what issues had been raised about its authenticity.

Since then, you as well as Metz have joined here so as to continue the debate. While I appreciate Metz's remarks as at least being sympathetic and trying to help, you're here just taking more pot-shots at me.

As fake documents like this have never been seen before, even as a designer I wasn't looking for tell-tale signs as I would for medals and badges, for example. As well, since it came from a well-known German dealer, one would expect it to be real. Also, I can tell you that this document initially fooled a document collector in Germany far more seasoned and knowledgeable than I when it comes to documents.

It must be great comfort to be so dead certain and correct all the time as some of you seem to think you are. I envy that level of perfection.

[jaeger7-de]

That's quite an arrogant and smug response.

...

Okay, Understood your point.

You are the knight in shiny armour and the Feldgrau-people are throwing dirt on you.

AMEN

[METZ]

Hi Brian,
good to hear, that you can return this documents and hopefully the dealer can help you to find the source from this documents!

And in Feldgrau we just found some fake-docs and told the owner to return the documents back to the dealer!
That's all! The rest is a big misunderstanding! So I think we can stop this point here!

Most important is to find the source from this dangerous fakes! Hopefully the dealer can give you some help!

One for sure, the person (or persons) who made this document has a lot of know-how about graphics, typography, picture-editing/fair-drawing and printing, etc.!
The clean and very nice arrangement of the graphis and the selection of the typefaces, must be a person with a lot of skills and expertise in graphic-design (also in Photoshop & Illustrator)!
For example, you have to search for: "old german-style"-graphic-elements, select different ("old german") typefaces, find German-Unit-Seals and arrange this parts to new "authentic & old-looking" document!
A lot of work, but (fortunately) not perfect enough! I'm a graphic-designer, I know how much work it must have been to make fake-documents like this! (by the way: I'm not the faker!)
Not many graphic-designers are able to make fake-documents like this (also with some knowledgement about german-WW1-units! And to know how an original old german-document must look like! And to know which unit on a document the highest profit makes!)

So hopefully the dealer can tell you the source!
Good luck and best regards,
Jens