Big whopping fake

[Tim Tezer]

This just in from our friends at Ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...270461261&rd=1

This item is a complete phony. The eagles do not match those on original Wagner PLM's, but are exactly like the eagles on a recently produced repro that has been showing up everywhere. Usually, the repros have the area under the eagles' legs filled in, which makes it easy to spot. I have already seen a number of those repros being sold on Ebay (and other places) as "1920's-30's" copies. But I knew it would only be a matter of time before somebody cut that material out and tried to pass one off as original.

So here it is. This outrageous case has been added to add to the effect. There is no explanation whatsoever of why the case would be shaped like that. Except maybe it originally held something else? Some sort of silverware perhaps?

I have already e-mailed the "seller" who is in fact a company that represents people who walk in and have things listed for them. This is a wonderful new refuge for fakers. I asked flat out for the identity of the seller, and I told them I considered the item to be a fake. We'll see how they respond.

Tim

[Anthony Grisanti]

Tim

Thanks for the help and info on faking these...was about to ask the same question as Steve...apprecite your knowledge and assistance.

Tony

[PaulChep]

I also emailed the seller and they guaranty it to be original. I then asked original to which period, WWI, 20's 30's. I have not heard back and probable wouldn't.

[Tim Tezer]

All they told me was that they would not reveal the name of the seller. I recognized the name of one of the bidders as a friend of mine, and I warned him off, but he wasn't the high bidder anyway. So the question is, should I warn the other bidders? I know that could get me booted off Ebay, and I don't like to cut off a source of revenue. Maybe a little stealth is required....

Tim

[Don D.]

Report the item as a copy right infringement. That gets it pulled quicker than a swaz.
Don

[mravery]

All they told me was that they would not reveal the name of the seller. I recognized the name of one of the bidders as a friend of mine, and I warned him off, but he wasn't the high bidder anyway. So the question is, should I warn the other bidders? I know that could get me booted off Ebay, and I don't like to cut off a source of revenue. Maybe a little stealth is required....

Tim

Hey Tim,

No need to warn me.... I am just looking for a nice copy to display on a uniform

Cheers
Mark

[Anthony Grisanti]

Hey Paul,

I got the same guarantee. I was specifically and intentionally vague when asking if it was a period piece (I didn't specify a period) to intice any legitemate seller the opportunity to specify the period ..the email simply said it was a period piece and authentic.

I also emailed the seller and they guaranty it to be original. I then asked original to which period, WWI, 20's 30's. I have not heard back and probable wouldn't.

[NavyFCO]

Notice too that the bid went from $551 to the current price with the same two high bidders in seven minutes time! That might be legit, but...

One way to notify people about the authenticity is to make a bid and withdraw it later, leaving the reason for withdrawl something to the effect of: "was notified that this decoration was an outright fake" or something like that...

--Dave

[Allan H.]

So the question is, should I warn the other bidders? I know that could get me booted off Ebay, and I don't like to cut off a source of revenue. Maybe a little stealth is required....

Tim

Tim,
Heck no, don't e-mail anybody else on this! Looking at the bid history, my bet is the two bidders are in bed with the seller (or could even be the seller)! If you warn one of them, you will be reported for breaking the rules and booted.

The flip side is this- several years ago, I saw to "buddies" of mine bidding on the same French Air Force parachutist's badge. The seller claimed that it was a WWII badge brought home from WWII by his father who was an OSS operative. The badge couldn't have been more than a couple years old, and these two rocket scientists had bid the piece to over $100 with days left in the auction. I wrote to both of them to tell them that the badge was a modern piece and had nothing to do with WWII and even linked a militaria dealer who was selling the same badge for around $15 on his website. You'd think that i would have gotten a "hey, thanks for the head's up!" or some such response. What I got was a nasty response from one of the bidders for me to mind my own business and the other bidder turned me in to eBay for interfering with the auction!
Needless to say, I won't EVER do that again.
Allan

[Tim Tezer]

Mark - glad to see you're out of trouble on this one.

Ebay doesn't want anybody messing with their money-making machine, and I'm not quixotic enough or idealistic enough to fight every battle just to help every sucker on the vine. I did report this to Ebay as a counterfeit item (couldn't figure out an angle to claim it was copyright infringement, although Ebay wouldn't really know the difference). We'll see what happens.

For the record, I won't be doing anything to interfere with this auction. That's in case someone at Ebay reads this.

Tim

[NavyFCO]

What I got was a nasty response from one of the bidders for me to mind my own business and the other bidder turned me in to eBay for interfering with the auction!

I've sometimes found on eBay that sometimes people prefer to live in their world of make-believe than actually accept that something might not really be what they think it is. Amazing...

--Dave

[stogieman]

F*ck 'em!!!!!!!!

IMO, this falls in the "you can lead a horse to water.... etc., etc., etc." category. My fast glance last night and I thought it looked good, but checked with a friend in Germany who politely chided me for my silliness.... Now, the interesting part of this is yes, very similar to the Rothe Fakes, which in and off themselves will bring $800-$1500... even when sold as what they are... reproductions!
However, the case is a superb attempt at reproducing an actual WW1 & (especially) earlier style of scalloped edge case used for some of the High-end Prussian decorations, including the PLM! BUT, the printing inside the lid is not consistent with Wagner titles I have seen before. I'm combing through pictures for reference points but it's tedious as I have literally thousands of pix to sift through.....

You cannot interfere with bidders who have already allowed themselves to be convinced "such a deal"..... So, some day, they will discover the error of their ways and it will be an expensive, uncomfortable lesson........ Oh well.........

[Tim Tezer]

Ebay replied to me, saying that "on the face of it, this listing does not appear to violate our counterfeit item policy". Here is what I replied to them:

"The item is a fake, pure and simple. But as you are Ebay, and don't know your ass from a hole in the ground about the items that are being sold on your site, and wouldn't care if somebody were selling plutonium, as long as you got your stock options, then I don't suppose you're going to do anything about it.
Thanks,

Tim"

Do you think they'll pull my account? It's funny, I have items listed on Ebay right now, and I'd really like to sell them. But I still hate those guys. Is that wierd, or what?

[Eric Stahlhut]

You are now on the official eBay lunatic complainant list.

[Rolf D.]

Somebody should send them a photo of the one on Detlev's site (wonderful piece) and show them the price for a real PLM.

Ignorant people are best left alone, so their disease doesn't spread IMO.