S&L Hollow U-Boat Badge?

[morel5000]

Hi All,

Am I correct that this is the fire-gilded S&L Submariner hollow type badge?


Best regards,
Michel

[Darrell]

Hi All,

Am I correct that this is the fire-gilded S&L Submariner hollow type badge?


Best regards,
Michel

Correct. Now you have to determine the era. 80's 90's?

[morel5000]

Hi Darell,

What is the difference with this except that the needle is vertical? Did S&L continued making these badges and if so are all versions with this type of needle (either horizontal or vertical) post war versions?

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=hollow

+

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/69...llow#entry3844 (Post 5)

+

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ghlight=u-boat post 13

Best regards,
Michel

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Michel,

For me this example is post-WW2 from original dies. The finish is imo not fire-gilt but anodised/plated and the hardware (TINY "U" hinge, very thin needle pin and wide but thin C-catch) is absolutely definitely only post-WW2.

The finish and the hardware (and baselmetal) are the key to dating S&L hollow U-boat badges imo.

Regards
Mike

[morel5000]

Hi Mike,

thanks for answering. My intention is to definitely (which is a very difficult task) try to distinguish between post and pre war hollow badges.

First up I see the same thin needle on the version posted on the GMIC (I copied the images here for completeness) and in the several WAF threads.

These all have the TINY "U" hinge, very thin needle pin and wide but thin C-catch) and are hence post war (?):





The one you posted has clearly different hardware.



However there is also this very interesting thread on the sammlergemeinschaft:

http://h1797427.stratoserver.net/pub...highlight=hohl

Interesting observations in that thread:

There are two manufacturers, Deumer and Steinhauer und Luck which produce hollow U-Boat badges before ww2. Deumer also produces the same type as massive, hence that design as a massive badge should not be discarded easily.
Steinhauer did continue production with either a reworked die from Deumer or the die from themselves creating more variations.

There is the observation that post war badges from S&L have a lantern on their front mast (see attached image).

The thin needle is also been observed on 30's badges such as the Baltic cross. I did find this example, only with different catch:



So I wouldn't discard a badge solely based on the needle.

Best regards,
Michel

[morel5000]

Here are the two catalog scans:

[Mike Kenny]

Hi Michel,

I used 4 criteria in combination to condemn the first badge, not solely the pin. I agree there are definitely period badges/crosses which use needle pins and U hinges.

Regards
Mike