EKll with noncombatants band - slightly

[römischIX]

A gouvaneur is a high ranking offical and no colonial "officer".

Why not the white ribbon for merit in the colonies?

http://polzy.de/html/orden_details.p...=filtern_nach=

Typical combination of an Militärarzt in the rank of a stabs or oberstabsarzt with the XX long service for reserve troops, the sw-arican medal with clasps, the RAO, the RKM 3. and ... the cross on white ribbon...

[Chris Boonzaier]

A gouvaneur is a high ranking offical and no colonial "officer".

Why not the white ribbon for merit in the colonies?

http://polzy.de/html/orden_details.p...=filtern_nach=

Typical combination of an Militärarzt in the rank of a stabs or oberstabsarzt with the XX long service for reserve troops, the sw-arican medal with clasps, the RAO, the RKM 3. and ... the cross on white ribbon...

Hi,

first off, I doubt the Doctor in the link was in Africa 14-18, soldiers in GSWA qualified for a Black ribbon and a HK with swords as it was a battle zone.

He served in GSWA before the war, but officers rotated in and ou of GSWA.

The statutes for the white ribbon clearly show it would not be awarded for places that are a Kriegsschauplatz.

We can quibble over the Semantics of "colonial officer", I use it as a term for someone belonging to the Colonial office... even in his (Haber's ) colony there was a modicum of action with men killed on both sides. Ergo a "kriegsschauplatz" ?

If even a Civil Kommisar in occupied Belgium got a Black ribboned cross because he was technically in an area that was a Kriegsschauplatz, then certainly someone involved in a colonial skirmish?

1) Are there any documented cases of Colonial EKs on a white ribbon? (other than this one... which sems then to have been corrected)
2) Is it not logical, that if there was combat in a colony, the possibility of a white ribbon falls away?
3) Were there any colonies that were ceded without combat?
4) If so, is it likely that anyone in those colonies served long enough to qualify for a white ribbon?

Best
Chris

[Montgomery Burns]

Hi Kay,

one of us is not understanding the other... or both...

1) I use the term colonial officer as a general term for official
2) No doubt he recieved the EK for that...
3) A white ribboned EK would not have been the right award
4) Noone is doubting he got an EK
5) Most likely (if he got a white ribbon) that it was corrected to black
6) For most things like this you cannot wait for details, you have to go find them.
7) Where did the details for his awards come from? Source is everything.

best
Chris

CHris
just different angle's you an I

your point3) A white ribboned EK would not have been the right award.
we cant say that without technical details .

point 5) Most likely (if he got a white ribbon) that it was corrected to black.
just because you know of such examples means not it must be the only possibility.

therefore I supposed not to have al to sure judgements .


the subject is al to complicated anyhow to argue about , so I leave it as it is .



regards kay

[Chris Boonzaier]

CHris


the subject is al to complicated anyhow to argue about , so I leave it as it is .

Its actually not complicated at all.

I would suggest a copy of the Wernitz book.

best
Chris

[Montgomery Burns]

Its actually not complicated at all.

I would suggest a copy of the Wernitz book.

best
Chris

I read Luis Schneider,,,so did Wernitz








.

[Chris Boonzaier]

Ok... so you read a book from 1872 to tell you about an award from 1914?

[Montgomery Burns]

Ok... so you read a book from 1872 to tell you about an award from 1914?

.


that I have to read Harald Geisler ,,so did Wernitz










.

[Chris Boonzaier]

.


that I have to read Harald Geisler ,,so did Wernitz


.

I don't think Geisler had much to offer Wernitz...

I seriously don't see how Schneider's 1872 book can help you in relation to a 1914 white ribboned cross?

As far as Geissler goes, I like the photos... but as far as Info about the white ribboned cross ... as a German reader you will understand "den kann ich in die Tonne klopfen" ?

I am sorry, arguing this point with schneider in one hand and geissler in the other is like going to a gunfight with a knife.

[Montgomery Burns]

I don't think Geisler had much to offer Wernitz...

I seriously don't see how Schneider's 1872 book can help you in relation to a 1914 white ribboned cross?

As far as Geissler goes, I like the photos... but as far as Info about the white ribboned cross ... as a German reader you will understand "den kann ich in die Tonne klopfen" ?

I am sorry, arguing this point with schneider in one hand and geissler in the other is like going to a gunfight with a knife.

I seriously don't see how Schneider's 1872 book can help you in relation to a 1914 white ribboned cross?


for the schneider book ,,"its showing ,

the complexity and mass of official regulations needed to regulate the awarding idea of the crosses from day one to 60 years and more onwards ,,,

1914 would need the same ,,,,and most likely holding grey zones just as in 1813/1870

so far I have not seen one EK book with the complete layout of the regulations ( statuten ) for rewarding crosses of 1914 .

do you know one ?

,, because there I suspect the answers to the awarding of Eduard Haber.

ps ,when did you read schneider ,,? I feel its such a shame there's no English version available .

regards kay

[Chris Boonzaier]

I seriously don't see how Schneider's 1872 book can help you in relation to a 1914 white ribboned cross?


for the schneider book ,,"its showing ,

the complexity and mass of official regulations needed to regulate the awarding idea of the crosses from day one to 60 years and more onwards ,,,

1914 would need the same ,,,,and most likely holding grey zones just as in 1813/1870

so far I have not seen one EK book with the complete layout of the regulations ( statuten ) for rewarding crosses of 1914 .

do you know one ?

,, because there I suspect the answers to the awarding of Eduard Haber.

ps ,when did you read schneider ,,? I feel its such a shame there's no English version available .

regards kay

Maybe you should just invest in Wernitz ;-)

[Montgomery Burns]

Maybe you should just invest in Wernitz ;-)

quete Chris ...
1) Are there any documented cases of Colonial EKs on a white ribbon? (other than this one... which sems then to have been corrected)
2) Is it not logical, that if there was combat in a colony, the possibility of a white ribbon falls away?
3) Were there any colonies that were ceded without combat?
4) If so, is it likely that anyone in those colonies served long enough to qualify for a white ribbon?

second quote
3) A white ribboned EK would not have been the right award
5) Most likely (if he got a white ribbon) that it was corrected to black

so if I buy the Book I will be convinced of the correctness of your opinions .

tell me what section pages do I have to look for this ?




regards kay

[morel5000]

Hi All,

To get to the main topic;
nice cross, although it looks in my eyes that the jump ring was once replaced/ repaired? Does it goes through a hole?

And to the sub topic;
Nicht-Kämpfer translates to Non Combatant.
If they wanted to call it "non military service on the homefront" they would have called it "Nicht militärische Einsatz in Heimatfront" or something similar.
They didn't, why propose a new name? I think Iron cross is not accurate too, so I propose a new name: "the iron core silver framed cross".

Best regards,
Michel

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi All,


Nicht-Kämpfer translates to Non Combatant.
If they wanted to call it "non military service on the homefront" they would have called it "Nicht militärische Einsatz in Heimatfront" or something similar.
,
Michel

Hi Michel,

I dont find any official statutes for 14 -18 where the white ribbon is refered to a s a "Nicht-Kämpfer". They refer to it as a white ribbon for service on the home front, amongst other things,

best
Chris

[morel5000]

Hi Chris,

interesting, ¨Daheim erworbenes Verdienst¨. You got a scan of the original statues you might want to share?

Thanks,
Michel

[Montgomery Burns]

in the mean time we wait <:

some R&R

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2LNGRVGSAo.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2LNGRVGSAo












regards kay