Opinions needed on Austrian medals

[peterwyndavies]

I would be grateful for identification and opinions on these two Austrian medals. I attach some pics.
Thanks,
Peter.

[peterwyndavies]

The other medal.
Thanks,
Peter.

[avensis2000]

Hi,

Lower one ("Verdienst") is Austrian Militärverdienstkreuz with war decoration + clasp for 1-time repeat with swords. It looks like a miniature cross - is it? If it's mini, then it seems ok. If it's normal size, then it looks quite bad .

I havent studied this award a lot even though I do collect Austrian medals - this just hasnt been yet on my "list to get", but my guess would be it's 2nd class because of enamelled laurel wreath, but it could be 3rd class variation too. Hopefully/probably someone with proper knowledge can tell you which one it is.

Upper one is Austrian Marianerkreuz, silver frame. Is this also mini or normal size? Anyway, both ways would look ok to me. If it's normal size, it should be manufacturer stamp in ring or somewhere (usually "FR")

[peterwyndavies]

Hi Avensis2000,
Thanks for you observations. The medals are full size. I will check up to see if either are maker marked and let you know.
Thanks,
Peter.

[avensis2000]

Ok.

Note: even though that Militärverdienstkreuz looks quite poor quality, I still dont think it's a fake if you think that way. Enamel of laurel wreath looks to me exceptionally bad, but still I cannot say for sure if it would be a fake - actually I dont think it is - let's see if Elmar or other person knowing a lot of Austrian orders sees this - they can give you better evaluation then.

[avensis2000]

Check&compare...

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Avensis2000,
I note what you say and thanks for posting the excellent pics.
Peter.

[petopoint]

Curious?

Interesting to note that the 1871 dated Cross is similar in shape of the Third Reich era Mothers Cross. Wonder if they got their inspiration for it from this Austrian Award?

[Brian L.]

Interesting to note that the 1871 dated Cross is similar in shape of the Third Reich era Mothers Cross. Wonder if they got their inspiration for it from this Austrian Award?

Unlikely. It's a standard Teutonic cross form that has existed since well before the Middle Ages.

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Petopoint and Bolewts58,
Neither of the medals are maker marked, which I suppose makes the 1871 dated cross suspect.
Thanks,
Peter.

[morel5000]

1871 dated cross suspect.

Send me a PM if you decide to throw it in the bin.

Best regards,
Michel

[peterwyndavies]

PM'd
Peter.

[Roglebk]

Both looks good, only worn. No bin i hope...

[peterwyndavies]

Thanks Carl,
Obviously I take it that not all of these crosses were maker marked.
Thanks,
Peter.

[Elmar Lang]

Hello,

the first piece posted, is a Militärverdienstkreuz III Klasse with Kriegsdekoration ("War Decoration" or the laurel wreath between the arms) and Swords, with bar for repeated award (this bar could be marked "ZIMBLER" on the reverse), in the uncommon variation with green enamelled war decoration. The ribbon is typical of the 1917-18 period.

The Militärverdienstkreuz was a very high decoration for military merit awarded to officers, in one class only until 1914, then divided into three classes from that date. The higher classes were awarded depending on the rank of the recipient (2nd Class to officers from Generalmajor or Colonel with a command higher than his rank upwards; the 1st Class -extremely rare!- to Generals of the highest rank and command, like Army Commanders, Field Marshals, Sovereigns, etc.).

The second decoration is a "Marianerkreuz" (Marian Cross) of the Teutonic Order: it was a sort of a "Merit Cross" of the order, in two grades: Marianer Halskreuz (to be worn at the neck) and the one here depicted, with triangular ribbon. This is of the 2nd type, while the 1st one had a black moirée ribbon (the same, also for the neck cross).

The Marian Cross was awarded to nobility, after having served for sanitary or humanitarian assistance (or after having given a proper sum of money to the Order, for this purpose).

Best wishes,

Elmar Lang