Aws

[Robert P.]

Trevor,

I love it. I need an 1870 with Jubilee to mix with my others. Maybe the SOS will have something for me. I'm doing my homework in order to identify an original.

Robert

[fabri-online]

Thanks Trevor for your so positive comments.

From pics, any idea of what is the material that has more probabilities ?

[Kraal]

@Trevor

And from all the experiences I made myself, I say this core is repainted, if it is a 3 piece construction, which I assume, as nothing else was mentioned. Still, you cannot fully know if it was done back in the decade the cross itself was made or nowadays.

From what I see I would say it was done long time ago, as modern paint usually does not develop such significant details as (for example) the veins as seen on the 9 o clock arm.

[fabri-online]

Hello kraal

your is surely a respectable opinion based on something that is not standard on an AWS cross.
Please can you explain what don't you like ? because glossy, because paint is missing near the edges, because there are portions of paint on frame.. etc
Paint is glossy probably more than the original because someone cleaned, polished, there are traces.
As the core rattles just from left to right and viceversa but there are signs of movements from top to bottom too, I think that what we see have been caused during the assembly. If you repaint the core and it don't move in that direction how is possible to see those frame signs on core ?
this is possible just if you open the cross to repaint but in my opinion solders are ok.

[Montgomery Burns]

Hello kraal

your is surely a respectable opinion based on something that is not standard on an AWS cross.
Please can you explain what don't you like ? because glossy, because paint is missing near the edges, because there are portions of paint on frame.. etc
Paint is glossy probably more than the original because someone cleaned, polished, there are traces.
As the core rattles just from left to right and viceversa but there are signs of movements from top to bottom too, I think that what we see have been caused during the assembly. If you repaint the core and it don't move in that direction how is possible to see those frame signs on core ?
this is possible just if you open the cross to repaint but in my opinion solders are ok.

A note ,,

I know by extensive study of the soldering method of Iron crosses 1870 /1914,
that opening the frame and repainting the core,, such as re silvering crosses would go without traces to the soldering in most cases .
.










.

[Kraal]

Biggest part of repaints is the "fat drop" issue that occurs in the area between the beading and the core. The liquid paint gathers ín this areas, dries out and leaves a way to thick paint in there.

Look at my modified AWS Foto and the paintig I have done. The red circles show that the cross is repainted and that the repaint has been down pretty rough, with way to much paint on some parts.

THe pink circles show the movement of the cross, my painting shows the different paint breaks/damages and how they occur.

Yellow circles are unusual places for damages when we are speaking of regular wearing. Do you know how the cross was stored? Maybe with some sharp objects in a box?

Green circles is black patina. I have polished my anchesters crosses back to mint status to let them develop an even patina, and those black patina is what can't be removed easily with water/soap and a polish cloth, but requires easily 15 mins of fast polishing. A pretty time intensive job, most people are not interested in to do, especially not fakers.
This cross had been heavily cleaned as you can see on the overall of the patina, after that the repaint was done (explains why the core underneath the paint is so shiny) and then some brown patina developed over the last few years.

If anyone has an old EK with casted core he is willing to "sacrifice", send it to me and I will restore it and do an restauration/faking possibilities guide. Have restored some EKs of a friend (family stuff he wanted to have shiny again, came in with some light rust and nearly gone paint..).

[Montgomery Burns]

a very nicely presented explanation of a advanced expert capability to see the alarming details and tell tell tales.


aber , ob das Zweck hat ? .




grüße kay

[streptile]

Biggest part of repaints is the "fat drop" issue that occurs in the area between the beading and the core.

Hi Andy,

Nicely done presentation. However, in my opinion these types were AWS's least expensive model. The painting did not adhere well to the smooth, non-magnetic core, which was painted after assembly. Almost all of these have similar problems. Here you can see some of the same problems on mine (and I have seen these problems on all of them). To me the core shows no signs on repainting -- a conclusion I may not have reached before doing such extensive research into the different AWS types, but which I am nevertheless quite comfortable with now.

I know by extensive study of the soldering method of Iron crosses 1870 /1914, that opening the frame and repainting the core,, such as re silvering crosses would go without traces to the soldering in most cases

I would like to see your research, as I think you are wrong.

[Montgomery Burns]

there is nothing I can do or say that will convince you Trevor .

sorry .

.

[streptile]

there is nothing I can do or say that will convince you Trevor .
sorry .

Just what I suspected.

[Montgomery Burns]

just in case someone doubt there is a research .Trevor

some may be remember this,, some time ago .

with this my research started.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=l.lemcke

last year a lot of the results came back here on my site
http://ironcross.vpweb.nl/soldering.html.

but I 100% pass,,,,, on revealing openly the how to do it .

regards





.

[fabri-online]

Kraal, thanks for your nice explanation but it 's NOT unequivocal !
In my opinion the red circles don't show a repaint, you say that but it 's an opinion like mine.
Who is able to say that it 's not a factory job ? the pic just says that paint was applied and frame moved before paint was dry, this is the one visible fact.
Then, if you believe in my word, core don't move up to down but on top of the 12 o' clock arm there are traces of a movement, how is it possible when the cross is already assemblied ? as you can see core is stopped in the W area by frame inner corners.
I find hard to say it 's repainted if there is not a palpable explanation.

[streptile]

I understand Andy's (Kraal) opinion, and for a time I also wondered if mine was repainted. But after seeing many of these crosses with the same paint issues, and no traces of different paint underneath, I have determined that the paint problems are due to production problems from AWS, not repaint. The non-magnetic 2. core always has some paint problems.

Here is one more.

[gregM]

Just my opinion here but to me, the core does not look
repainted. This paint loss looks a lot to me like the
paint loss found on many one piece Otto Schickle crosses.

It's a problem with the paint not sticking to the (alloy) cores.
I would post an example but my computer is in the repair shop.