1870 EKII: 9th Bead For Review

[GHP]

Gents, here is my conundrum. I own a putative 1870 EKII that I purchased for a pittance ($175) back in 2005 or so. I have read the posts of most, if not all, 9th bead fakes and mine does have some attributes of the fake.

Dimensions.
outside: 42.5mm top-to-bottom & left-to-right.
inside: 36.5mm top-to-bottom & left-to-right.
inside center: 5mm square at the narrowest inside corners on both sides.
oakleafs: 20mm wide x 15.5mm high
W cypher: 6.5mm tall; 9mm wide at top of W; 4.5mm at bottom of W.
1813: 4.5mm x 8.5mm at base
1870: 4.0mm x 7mm at base.

Weight: 14g

Pros:
1. Appears cast, not pressed; has casting "divots" - is not flat-smooth.
2. Reverse date - no flaws on the "1" and "8"
3. Jump ring is lightly soldered and sits high on the frame.
4. Color appears blackened, not painted, when compaired to its 1914 and 1939 descentants in my keeping.
5. Frame edging is tight and professionally soldered with no gaps.
6. "FW". "W" has the first-stroke serif and lacks the horizontal flaw.
7. Beading is smooth, not rough. However, the outside edging of the beading is flat-smooth.

Cons:
1. Visible 9th bead.
2. "Over-and-Under" 8 is present.
3. Maker-marked "KO"
4. Metal over-casting build-up flaw at base of crown on reverse side.
5. Obverse & reverse side, corner of right and bottom arm joins appear to have been cut or sawn?
















Thank you for your time and comments.
--Guy Power

[LeeJ]

Hi Guy,

First off "GO GIANTS!" As for the cross, you have already done your homework and ansewerd your question if there is one? It is a fake cross Sorry

[GHP]

Lee,

Thanks .............. I was just hoping-against-hope that someone would say this one was different.

Oh well, not a great deal of money lost. Sure wish I had the one I bought in Germany in 1977 for $75!!!!

--Guy

[gregM]

Lee is correct. It is a fake.
These things have fooled a lot of people.

[streptile]

Go 'Niners !!!

Yes, all these are fake.

[soldon]

Most interesting thread - I'm not initiated - what do you mean exactly by 9th Bead fake ? Best Wishes

[gregM]

If you look at the close up picture above of the crown,
the 9th bead from the left is oversized. That is one of
the things that make these fakes easy to spot.

Please do a search on "9th bead fake" and you will see
many,many discussions about these crosses.

[soldon]

Hello Greg,
Thanks for the explanation. I did do as you suggested - made a 9th bead search, read through a lot of threads - it appears to be a bit like walking on egg shells - lots of people offer tips on authenticating 1870's EK's then other collectors rubbish the tips and then suggest counter tips. Bit of a minefield really.

[jt327gir]

I'm still not seeing what the "9th bead" flaw is. Obverse or reverse crown? (or both?) From where does one begin counting beads?

[ejwahl1]

I'm still not seeing what the "9th bead" flaw is. Obverse or reverse crown? (or both?) From where does one begin counting beads?

The base/rim of the obverse crown and, as Greg states, count the beads from left-to-right. The ninth bead itself is obvious and oversized.

Ed

[Biro]

I'm still not seeing what the "9th bead" flaw is. Obverse or reverse crown? (or both?) From where does one begin counting beads?

Here: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...4&postcount=12

[streptile]

In my opinion the swollen ninth bead is by far the hardest to identify and least consistent feature of this fake. Just look at the design of the crown; no original has this crown, and it can be spotted from bad photos a mile away.

[soldon]

Streptile,
Or anyone in a position to help - could you please post a enlarged picture of a EK2 1870 of obverse side crown. That's a original EK2 1870. We have at the start of the thread a large picture of a fake. If as Streptile writes the difference in the crowns is easy/ easier to spot than the 9 bead fake ( which to be honest I find a little problematic to spot ) we can progress together. Best wishes

[streptile]

Hi Soldon,

Nice idea. Here is the comparison. It's not possible to confuse the Ninth Bead fake with the Type B, so I've done a comparison with a Type A (also the most common type of original 1870 EK2).

I hope this can help you

[soldon]

Streptile,
Your a diamond, that's exactly what I was looking for - from the two examples posted, on the original, the whole row of beads seem more substantial, rose petals at the uprights bottoms more fuller, crown outline has a more rounded flowing look to it.
After Easter I'm going to view two 1870 EK2's with ribbons, one with 25 year celebration oak leaf and a 1914 repeat spange, I've only one picture of each, a front one of the 1914 spange EK2 and reverse picture of the other EK2. After seeing your two pictures I feel confident, I be able to make a judgement one way or another. Here's the pictures. Again thanks for the help on this.